4 ms·
You may want to review what caused the American revolution.
by dekken_ 11mo ago
You may want to review what caused the American revolution.
- afavour 11mo agoYou don’t think it’s absurdly simplistic to say “taxes = revolution”? It’s not like Mamdani snuck into power. Voters chose him specifically on the agenda he proposed. Why would they revolt?
- dekken_ 11mo agoIf you have no say in how much you are taxed, that is taxation without representation. Seems you completely missed the point.
- afavour 11mo ago> If you have no say in how much you are taxed Which New Yorkers do, because they just voted. I guess I did miss the point because from where I’m standing this is all a big non sequitur. “Mamdani seeks to raise taxes and spend the revenue on subsidizing services used by all. This is similar to an approach seen often in Europe” “Did you know that if you tax people too much they revolt” …okay?
- dekken_ 11mo agoI realize this is difficult for you, but if you read my first response to you, it was talking about Europeans (which I am), and what they identify with, we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed.
- afavour 11mo ago> we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed. Do you not have elections?
- dekken_ 11mo agoYou understand surely, that just because people vote, doesn't mean their representatives actually do anything that the people that voted want? come on
- afavour 11mo agoTo stop dancing around the obvious: I understand that you don’t want to pay taxes and are annoyed that you live in a society that has decided, via very regular democratic process, that people should pay taxes. That doesn’t mean democracy is a failure, it just means your opinion is in the minority.
- dekken_ 11mo agonow you're just lying, blatantly. My point was about the degree of taxation.
- disgruntledphd2 11mo agoDo you not live in a parliamentary democracy with regular elections?
- dekken_ 11mo agoI live in France, which I'm not sure if you paying attention to it (no judgement, why would you), but as a country, they're somewhat financially screwed, so whether or not there are elections, or even if the people have representation, something needs to be done, and it will likely involve higher taxation and cost of living generally.
- disgruntledphd2 11mo agoOk fair, France has been a disaster lately. However, it's actually more that as a country, you'll need to figure out coalitions as it looks pretty evenly split three ways. If it's any consolation, I probably pay similar tax rates to France, and get way worse services.
- greggoB 11mo agoBut this isn't happening in this case - the people had an actual say with their vote. They chose this.
- dekken_ 11mo agoYes Gregg, I was speaking as a European using the American revolution as an example, not strictly speaking about NYC right now, I hope that's clear
- greggoB 11mo agoWhatever you're generally trying to say is not clear; looking at the other comments, I appear to not be the only one struggling with it. Why are you using the American revolution as an example? Like in what way is that remotely relevant? The revolution was the result of an actual denial of representation for all colonists, it wasn't about the general dynamics of a democracy in which the majority that wins an electon gets to set the rules that the minority must abide by - there was no election at all, only the rule of the British monarch. If you were talking about DC or Puerto Rico where they actually have taxation without representation then there'd be some merit to your point, but you're not so there isn't.
- dekken_ 11mo agoMy original point was about people having any say in terms of how much tax they pay. And the American revolution was an example in the extreme of what can happen, given it did happen.
- greggoB 11mo agoBut it wasn't about how much tax they paid - it was about the idea of being taxed at all. I live in Switzerland. Here the general population have about as much a say about tax as one can imagine, from federal to municipal (gemeinde) level. And guess what? You'll find people here who are very upset about the taxes they pay. If people don't like a tax policy, they can vote against it. What they absolutely CANNOT do is try to instigate a revolution because the majority voted contra to their desires. That is not how democracy works.
- gibbitz 11mo agoAmericans have control over what they're taxed as long as they make 8 figures or more per year. The rich and corporations here are paying a share, but not as big of a share of their pie as those who make less. What people were looking to elect is someone who will treat those who can afford it the same way those who can't. Just like elections that went the other way the deciding factor is perception. If politicians would set a transparent flat tax, the elections could be about facts and not feels. Right now it feels like politicians are leveraging the pain of the many to get votes without making any change, because they're not generally affected financially y their policies.
- dekken_ 11mo agoI think you're right yes.