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I think you can nitpick the detail but the broader point is still true. Yes, you still pay for the bus, but it’s heavily subsidised. Yes, you still pay for chil
by afavour 1y ago
I think you can nitpick the detail but the broader point is still true. Yes, you still pay for the bus, but it’s heavily subsidised. Yes, you still pay for childcare but government subsidies make it wildly more affordable than it is today for New Yorkers.
The general pitch is “raise taxes to make life more affordable for all”. That’s an idea Europeans can identify with.
- LtdJorge 1y agoWe may identify with it. Doesn't mean we'd like to, though.
- dekken_ 1y ago> That’s an idea Europeans can identify with. To a point, when we stop seeing a social benefit from our taxes, it starts to look more like theft.
- afavour 1y agoThis just in: some people don’t like paying taxes
- dekken_ 1y agoYou may want to review what caused the American revolution.
- afavour 1y agoYou don’t think it’s absurdly simplistic to say “taxes = revolution”? It’s not like Mamdani snuck into power. Voters chose him specifically on the agenda he proposed. Why would they revolt?
- dekken_ 1y agoIf you have no say in how much you are taxed, that is taxation without representation. Seems you completely missed the point.
- afavour 1y ago> If you have no say in how much you are taxed Which New Yorkers do, because they just voted. I guess I did miss the point because from where I’m standing this is all a big non sequitur. “Mamdani seeks to raise taxes and spend the revenue on subsidizing services used by all. This is similar to an approach seen often in Europe” “Did you know that if you tax people too much they revolt” …okay?
- dekken_ 1y agoI realize this is difficult for you, but if you read my first response to you, it was talking about Europeans (which I am), and what they identify with, we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed.
- afavour 1y ago> we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed. Do you not have elections?
- dekken_ 1y agoYou understand surely, that just because people vote, doesn't mean their representatives actually do anything that the people that voted want? come on
- afavour 1y agoTo stop dancing around the obvious: I understand that you don’t want to pay taxes and are annoyed that you live in a society that has decided, via very regular democratic process, that people should pay taxes. That doesn’t mean democracy is a failure, it just means your opinion is in the minority.
- gibbitz 1y agoAmericans have control over what they're taxed as long as they make 8 figures or more per year. The rich and corporations here are paying a share, but not as big of a share of their pie as those who make less. What people were looking to elect is someone who will treat those who can afford it the same way those who can't. Just like elections that went the other way the deciding factor is perception. If politicians would set a transparent flat tax, the elections could be about facts and not feels. Right now it feels like politicians are leveraging the pain of the many to get votes without making any change, because they're not generally affected financially y their policies.
- dekken_ 1y agoI think you're right yes.
- ryandrake 1y agoBased on some of the hysterical commenters yesterday, you'd think that Lenin himself is moving into the mayor's office. People's sense of scale and the Overton window are so wacky right now.
- afavour 1y agoAs a New Yorker it’s been exhausting. So many ill-informed takes, like “he wants rent control!!”, ignorant of the fact that NYC already has rent control and has in some form or another since WW2.
- toomuchtodo 1y agoIt turns out that wide swaths of the electorate are some combination of ignorant, uneducated, and low functioning with a tad of fear thrown in. It’s unfortunate. Kentucky voters were wondering why polls weren’t open Tuesday to vote in these elections, for example, so someone being wildly misinformed about policy proposals or their mechanics would come as no surprise. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/kentucky-politician-had-remind-residents-195558799.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/kentucky-politician-had-... https://x.com/KYSecState/status/1985734353515671601 https://x.com/KYSecState/status/1985734353515671601 > We’re getting calls about polls being closed. They are closed because we do not have elections today. Kentucky votes next year. You cannot vote today in Kentucky for the mayor of New York City or the Governor of Virginia. Sorry. — Michael Adams, KY Secretary of State
- ZeroGravitas 1y agoNYC also ran a free bus pilot program recently: https://www.mta.info/guides/riding-the-bus/fare-free-bus-pilot https://www.mta.info/guides/riding-the-bus/fare-free-bus-pil... > From September 24, 2023 to August 31, 2024, five MTA bus routes — Bx18A/B, B60, M116, Q4, and S46/96 — were fare-free. Passengers on these routes were able to ride without paying the fare. > The purpose of the pilot was to study how fare-free service affects ridership, access, equity, and fare evasion. It was made possible thanks to funding from the New York State FY2024 budge
- rufus_foreman 1y ago
- mytailorisrich 1y agoErr, no, Europeans don't identify with that. Europeans are not a single opinion entity that is left wing, don't work past 5pm and read Sartre at night, after the union meeting.
- epolanski 1y agoHmm, the things he lists have very little to do with being leftist or rightist. Moreover, modern rights are often economically more to the left than modern lefts are (see Meloni, PiS in Poland, etc).
- akavi 1y agoThe bus (and the subway) in NYC are also already heavily subsidized. There is also already heavily subsidized childcare in NYC (3k, preK). The article in general takes the approach of listing a small handful of (usually very small) polities that have one of Mamdani's proposed policies, and then claim that the full suite is therefore "normal" across Europe.
- mytailorisrich 1y agoI think a big issue some Americans have is that they think socialism is great because it is the European model. 1. Europe is not socialist (Eastern Europe and the USSR were). And, no, social-democracy is NOT socialism. 2. The welfare state is essentially bankrupt in many European countries. 3. Socialism cannot, ultimately be democratic. My only sane interpretation for an election of a socialist candidate in 2025 is that this is a protest vote not an adhesion to socialism...
- margalabargala 1y agoEurope is not a monolith. Norwegians self identify as socialist for example.
- noselasd 1y ago> Norwegians self identify as socialist for example Er.. that's not even remotely true
- margalabargala 1y agoLast time I spent a month in Norway I repeatedly had various residents explain to me that various things were the way they were "because we are a socialist country". If they call themselves "socialist" then I will too.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y agoWell, there is a difference between "this is a socialist country" and "I am a socialist". Granted though, that under a functioning democracy, there will be overlap: if the country is x then most likely at least a plurality of voters support x. It doesn't mean that "all citizens support x" or "any specific citizen supports x and self identifies themself an x-ist".
- margalabargala 1y ago