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The Guardian strikes again... as an European those policies are not "a given"... shockingly, we need to buy tickets to ride the bus, childcare is not usually fr

The Guardian strikes again... as an European those policies are not "a given"... shockingly, we need to buy tickets to ride the bus, childcare is not usually free overall, and rent freezes don't work. It is also not so normal to claim to be a bona fide socialist (and Europe knows more than most what this means).

afavour 1y ago
I think you can nitpick the detail but the broader point is still true. Yes, you still pay for the bus, but it’s heavily subsidised. Yes, you still pay for childcare but government subsidies make it wildly more affordable than it is today for New Yorkers. The general pitch is “raise taxes to make life more affordable for all”. That’s an idea Europeans can identify with.
- LtdJorge 1y ago
  We may identify with it. Doesn't mean we'd like to, though.
- dekken_ 1y ago
  > That’s an idea Europeans can identify with. To a point, when we stop seeing a social benefit from our taxes, it starts to look more like theft.
  - afavour 1y ago
    This just in: some people don’t like paying taxes
    - dekken_ 1y ago
      You may want to review what caused the American revolution.
      - afavour 1y ago
        You don’t think it’s absurdly simplistic to say “taxes = revolution”? It’s not like Mamdani snuck into power. Voters chose him specifically on the agenda he proposed. Why would they revolt?
        dekken_ 1y ago
        If you have no say in how much you are taxed, that is taxation without representation. Seems you completely missed the point.
        afavour 1y ago
        > If you have no say in how much you are taxed Which New Yorkers do, because they just voted. I guess I did miss the point because from where I’m standing this is all a big non sequitur. “Mamdani seeks to raise taxes and spend the revenue on subsidizing services used by all. This is similar to an approach seen often in Europe” “Did you know that if you tax people too much they revolt” …okay?
        dekken_ 1y ago
        I realize this is difficult for you, but if you read my first response to you, it was talking about Europeans (which I am), and what they identify with, we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed.
        afavour 1y ago
        > we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed. Do you not have elections?
        dekken_ 1y ago
        You understand surely, that just because people vote, doesn't mean their representatives actually do anything that the people that voted want? come on
- ryandrake 1y ago
  Based on some of the hysterical commenters yesterday, you'd think that Lenin himself is moving into the mayor's office. People's sense of scale and the Overton window are so wacky right now.
  - afavour 1y ago
    As a New Yorker it’s been exhausting. So many ill-informed takes, like “he wants rent control!!”, ignorant of the fact that NYC already has rent control and has in some form or another since WW2.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      It turns out that wide swaths of the electorate are some combination of ignorant, uneducated, and low functioning with a tad of fear thrown in. It’s unfortunate. Kentucky voters were wondering why polls weren’t open Tuesday to vote in these elections, for example, so someone being wildly misinformed about policy proposals or their mechanics would come as no surprise. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/kentucky-politician-had-remind-residents-195558799.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/kentucky-politician-had-... https://x.com/KYSecState/status/1985734353515671601 https://x.com/KYSecState/status/1985734353515671601 > We’re getting calls about polls being closed. They are closed because we do not have elections today. Kentucky votes next year. You cannot vote today in Kentucky for the mayor of New York City or the Governor of Virginia. Sorry. — Michael Adams, KY Secretary of State
    - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
      NYC also ran a free bus pilot program recently: https://www.mta.info/guides/riding-the-bus/fare-free-bus-pilot https://www.mta.info/guides/riding-the-bus/fare-free-bus-pil... > From September 24, 2023 to August 31, 2024, five MTA bus routes — Bx18A/B, B60, M116, Q4, and S46/96 — were fare-free. Passengers on these routes were able to ride without paying the fare. > The purpose of the pilot was to study how fare-free service affects ridership, access, equity, and fare evasion. It was made possible thanks to funding from the New York State FY2024 budge
  - rufus_foreman 1y ago
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  Err, no, Europeans don't identify with that. Europeans are not a single opinion entity that is left wing, don't work past 5pm and read Sartre at night, after the union meeting.
  - epolanski 1y ago
    Hmm, the things he lists have very little to do with being leftist or rightist. Moreover, modern rights are often economically more to the left than modern lefts are (see Meloni, PiS in Poland, etc).
- akavi 1y ago
  The bus (and the subway) in NYC are also already heavily subsidized. There is also already heavily subsidized childcare in NYC (3k, preK). The article in general takes the approach of listing a small handful of (usually very small) polities that have one of Mamdani's proposed policies, and then claim that the full suite is therefore "normal" across Europe.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  I think a big issue some Americans have is that they think socialism is great because it is the European model. 1. Europe is not socialist (Eastern Europe and the USSR were). And, no, social-democracy is NOT socialism. 2. The welfare state is essentially bankrupt in many European countries. 3. Socialism cannot, ultimately be democratic. My only sane interpretation for an election of a socialist candidate in 2025 is that this is a protest vote not an adhesion to socialism...
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    Europe is not a monolith. Norwegians self identify as socialist for example.
    - noselasd 1y ago
      > Norwegians self identify as socialist for example Er.. that's not even remotely true
      - margalabargala 1y ago
        Last time I spent a month in Norway I repeatedly had various residents explain to me that various things were the way they were "because we are a socialist country". If they call themselves "socialist" then I will too.
        SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        Well, there is a difference between "this is a socialist country" and "I am a socialist". Granted though, that under a functioning democracy, there will be overlap: if the country is x then most likely at least a plurality of voters support x. It doesn't mean that "all citizens support x" or "any specific citizen supports x and self identifies themself an x-ist".
        margalabargala 1y ago
greekrich92 1y ago
$2500/month is cheap childcare in NYC. $2K/m for a 1 bedroom is cheap. How much do those things cost in Aalborg or Malmö or Wurzburg?
epolanski 1y ago
I'm European too and I second this, free transport, free childcare or rent freezes are not givens, they aren't even common. All of those things _tend_ to be free only if you can't afford them, are a single mother/father. Average childcare in my area is 900 euros per month, which is a lot in Italy where average salary is twice than that. Public one exists, getting in is hard. As for him claiming to being a socialist I don't find anything wrong/strange with it. US really needs this kind of politicians too.
SequoiaHope 1y ago
It seems like quite a few European countries have a social-democratic party which seems broadly similar to the idea of democratic socialism, which I think I recall is what Mamdani identified with in his acceptance speech.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  No. Social democracy is not socialism and "democratic socialism" is just a weasel term to try to sell socialism... Ultimately socialism has to take people's freedoms away to be implemented.
defrost 1y ago
All his policies being in practice everywhere in Europe is a stretch, sure. The point is that most of his policies are part of the normal churn of debate in a great many countries and are not seen as extreme, even if not implemented. eg: "Free" public transport is a thing in Queensland, Australia. ( Okay, it's actually 50 cent flat rate fares: https://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/50-cent-fares https://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/50-cent-fares .. so lets call that 'nominal' )
ignoramous 1y ago
> childcare is not usually free overall NYC has time and again resisted calls to dismantle the current child care program, which costs the exchequer around $3b [0]. Mamdani's plan is to take the current child care program and make it "universal" at $6b. > we need to buy tickets to ride the bus Again, not without a precedent as MTA has ran some routes for free for many months. Besides, MTA sees 40%+ fare evasion, but MTA needs to pay the bills somehow, and Mamdani's proposal, which may go no where, is that rises in corporate tax will fill this ~$800m hole. > rent freezes don't work Depends on what the sought / desired outcome from rent regulation is. In Mamdani's case, it apparently is a stop-gap to control cost of living for the working class, until enough newer housing units can be built despite NIMBYs [1]. [0] https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-nycs-publicly-supported-child-care-programs/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-nycs-publicly-... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/economy/archive/2025/11/mamdani-housing-rent-control/684790/ https://www.theatlantic.com/economy/archive/2025/11/mamdani-...

afavour 1y ago

I think you can nitpick the detail but the broader point is still true. Yes, you still pay for the bus, but it’s heavily subsidised. Yes, you still pay for childcare but government subsidies make it wildly more affordable than it is today for New Yorkers. The general pitch is “raise taxes to make life more affordable for all”. That’s an idea Europeans can identify with.

LtdJorge 1y ago
We may identify with it. Doesn't mean we'd like to, though.
dekken_ 1y ago
> That’s an idea Europeans can identify with. To a point, when we stop seeing a social benefit from our taxes, it starts to look more like theft.
- afavour 1y ago
  This just in: some people don’t like paying taxes
  - dekken_ 1y ago
    You may want to review what caused the American revolution.
    - afavour 1y ago
      You don’t think it’s absurdly simplistic to say “taxes = revolution”? It’s not like Mamdani snuck into power. Voters chose him specifically on the agenda he proposed. Why would they revolt?
      - dekken_ 1y ago
        If you have no say in how much you are taxed, that is taxation without representation. Seems you completely missed the point.
        afavour 1y ago
        > If you have no say in how much you are taxed Which New Yorkers do, because they just voted. I guess I did miss the point because from where I’m standing this is all a big non sequitur. “Mamdani seeks to raise taxes and spend the revenue on subsidizing services used by all. This is similar to an approach seen often in Europe” “Did you know that if you tax people too much they revolt” …okay?
        dekken_ 1y ago
        I realize this is difficult for you, but if you read my first response to you, it was talking about Europeans (which I am), and what they identify with, we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed.
        afavour 1y ago
        > we as Europeans, have little say in how we are taxed. Do you not have elections?
        dekken_ 1y ago
        You understand surely, that just because people vote, doesn't mean their representatives actually do anything that the people that voted want? come on
ryandrake 1y ago
Based on some of the hysterical commenters yesterday, you'd think that Lenin himself is moving into the mayor's office. People's sense of scale and the Overton window are so wacky right now.
- afavour 1y ago
  As a New Yorker it’s been exhausting. So many ill-informed takes, like “he wants rent control!!”, ignorant of the fact that NYC already has rent control and has in some form or another since WW2.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    It turns out that wide swaths of the electorate are some combination of ignorant, uneducated, and low functioning with a tad of fear thrown in. It’s unfortunate. Kentucky voters were wondering why polls weren’t open Tuesday to vote in these elections, for example, so someone being wildly misinformed about policy proposals or their mechanics would come as no surprise. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/kentucky-politician-had-remind-residents-195558799.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/kentucky-politician-had-... https://x.com/KYSecState/status/1985734353515671601 https://x.com/KYSecState/status/1985734353515671601 > We’re getting calls about polls being closed. They are closed because we do not have elections today. Kentucky votes next year. You cannot vote today in Kentucky for the mayor of New York City or the Governor of Virginia. Sorry. — Michael Adams, KY Secretary of State
  - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
    NYC also ran a free bus pilot program recently: https://www.mta.info/guides/riding-the-bus/fare-free-bus-pilot https://www.mta.info/guides/riding-the-bus/fare-free-bus-pil... > From September 24, 2023 to August 31, 2024, five MTA bus routes — Bx18A/B, B60, M116, Q4, and S46/96 — were fare-free. Passengers on these routes were able to ride without paying the fare. > The purpose of the pilot was to study how fare-free service affects ridership, access, equity, and fare evasion. It was made possible thanks to funding from the New York State FY2024 budge
- rufus_foreman 1y ago
mytailorisrich 1y ago
Err, no, Europeans don't identify with that. Europeans are not a single opinion entity that is left wing, don't work past 5pm and read Sartre at night, after the union meeting.
- epolanski 1y ago
  Hmm, the things he lists have very little to do with being leftist or rightist. Moreover, modern rights are often economically more to the left than modern lefts are (see Meloni, PiS in Poland, etc).
akavi 1y ago
The bus (and the subway) in NYC are also already heavily subsidized. There is also already heavily subsidized childcare in NYC (3k, preK). The article in general takes the approach of listing a small handful of (usually very small) polities that have one of Mamdani's proposed policies, and then claim that the full suite is therefore "normal" across Europe.
mytailorisrich 1y ago
I think a big issue some Americans have is that they think socialism is great because it is the European model. 1. Europe is not socialist (Eastern Europe and the USSR were). And, no, social-democracy is NOT socialism. 2. The welfare state is essentially bankrupt in many European countries. 3. Socialism cannot, ultimately be democratic. My only sane interpretation for an election of a socialist candidate in 2025 is that this is a protest vote not an adhesion to socialism...
- margalabargala 1y ago
  Europe is not a monolith. Norwegians self identify as socialist for example.
  - noselasd 1y ago
    > Norwegians self identify as socialist for example Er.. that's not even remotely true
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      Last time I spent a month in Norway I repeatedly had various residents explain to me that various things were the way they were "because we are a socialist country". If they call themselves "socialist" then I will too.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
        Well, there is a difference between "this is a socialist country" and "I am a socialist". Granted though, that under a functioning democracy, there will be overlap: if the country is x then most likely at least a plurality of voters support x. It doesn't mean that "all citizens support x" or "any specific citizen supports x and self identifies themself an x-ist".
        margalabargala 1y ago

greekrich92 1y ago

$2500/month is cheap childcare in NYC. $2K/m for a 1 bedroom is cheap. How much do those things cost in Aalborg or Malmö or Wurzburg?

epolanski 1y ago

I'm European too and I second this, free transport, free childcare or rent freezes are not givens, they aren't even common. All of those things _tend_ to be free only if you can't afford them, are a single mother/father. Average childcare in my area is 900 euros per month, which is a lot in Italy where average salary is twice than that. Public one exists, getting in is hard. As for him claiming to being a socialist I don't find anything wrong/strange with it. US really needs this kind of politicians too.

SequoiaHope 1y ago

It seems like quite a few European countries have a social-democratic party which seems broadly similar to the idea of democratic socialism, which I think I recall is what Mamdani identified with in his acceptance speech.

mytailorisrich 1y ago
No. Social democracy is not socialism and "democratic socialism" is just a weasel term to try to sell socialism... Ultimately socialism has to take people's freedoms away to be implemented.

defrost 1y ago

All his policies being in practice everywhere in Europe is a stretch, sure. The point is that most of his policies are part of the normal churn of debate in a great many countries and are not seen as extreme, even if not implemented. eg: "Free" public transport is a thing in Queensland, Australia. ( Okay, it's actually 50 cent flat rate fares: https://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/50-cent-fares https://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/50-cent-fares .. so lets call that 'nominal' )

ignoramous 1y ago

> childcare is not usually free overall NYC has time and again resisted calls to dismantle the current child care program, which costs the exchequer around $3b [0]. Mamdani's plan is to take the current child care program and make it "universal" at $6b. > we need to buy tickets to ride the bus Again, not without a precedent as MTA has ran some routes for free for many months. Besides, MTA sees 40%+ fare evasion, but MTA needs to pay the bills somehow, and Mamdani's proposal, which may go no where, is that rises in corporate tax will fill this ~$800m hole. > rent freezes don't work Depends on what the sought / desired outcome from rent regulation is. In Mamdani's case, it apparently is a stop-gap to control cost of living for the working class, until enough newer housing units can be built despite NIMBYs [1]. [0] https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-nycs-publicly-supported-child-care-programs/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-nycs-publicly-... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/economy/archive/2025/11/mamdani-housing-rent-control/684790/ https://www.theatlantic.com/economy/archive/2025/11/mamdani-...