4 ms·

Fun fact, if you're not a US citizen on US soil US law does not apply. I'm not saying this because I'm taking a side, but this was how the Patriot act had knock

Fun fact, if you're not a US citizen on US soil US law does not apply. I'm not saying this because I'm taking a side, but this was how the Patriot act had knock on effects. An interesting case of this is something like you call a foreign national in another country and this is enough to be able to tap both sides of the conversation via Patriot Act / NSA purview.

asdefghyk 11mo ago
RE ".....not a US citizen on US soil US law does not apply....." Does not maKE SENSE... Why are people extradited to US from overseas locations . Like why they want Julian Assange ?
- raspasov 11mo ago
  Just some ideas: - Drone-bombing an embassy in downtown London does not look good on social media - He's too famous and has many supporters in the Western world to be publicly assassinated, regardless of location (example: Lady Gaga visited him while he was stuck in the embassy) - He's more useful as a deterrent, i.e., "see what might happen to you", to the people who might decide to go a similar route. Some will go that route regardless, but chances are at least a few have been persuaded otherwise. For all the ridicule of the government, the Intelligence Community seems to be doing a fairly intelligent job most of the time to satisfy its objectives.
- bulbar 11mo ago
  It does not apply in general, but a country will always declare jurisdiction if deemed necessary. A common example in Germany is that the country will try to enforce German law for foreign-hosted websites hosted by citizen of another country if the website is targeted at German citizen.
brookst 11mo ago
Are you saying that non-citizen residents of the US are not subject to US laws? That seems dubious.
LastTrain 11mo ago
And we know for sure there were no US citizens on these boats?
godelski 11mo ago
> not a US citizen ***on US soil*** US law does not apply. 1) these strikes are happening in international waters 2) US law definitely applies to non citizens on US soil. Like that's such a ridiculous statement. Even if the law was "we can do whatever if you're not a citizen", that's still law... You think non citizens are all sovereign citizens bound to no law? To be able to do whatever they want? I didn't know my neighbor was a diplomat. I think you mean rights. Which this is much more dubious. The constitution definitely interchanges the use of "citizens" and "people". Notably the 11th amendment uses citizens, specifying belonging to states foreign or domestic. It was ratified only a few years after the Bill of rights, so not like a drastic language change happened. There are people who will argue "the people" means "citizens" but I find that a difficult interpretation if you read the constitution or federalist papers.
- nerdsniper 11mo ago
  3) quite a few US laws apply to US citizens on non-US soil (paying domestic taxes on foreign income) 4) US law applies to non-US citizens who have never set foot in the USA (Kim Dotcom)
mjanx123 11mo ago
A country jurisdiction is both territorial and personal, the laws apply to anyone on the soil, and to the citizens, permanent residents, asylum seekers etc anywhere in the universe.
anarticle 11mo ago
Oh sorry, I have the wrong polarity here: "not US citizen" on "not US soil" is what I meant. Sorry for the firestorm this created! What I mean to say is that the USA INTENTIONALLY violates rights of people outside the USA, expressed in things like the Patriot Act re:wiretapping, and also the spaces between passport control where they say "USA laws don't apply, our agents have purview to do essentially anything". If you check the discussions in the 00s about this the fed govt was very dicey and you can tell they were chomping at the bit to be able to have essentially NO OVERSIGHT on any of these massive violations of people's rights. I'll take the karma hit, there is no way to edit it apparently. Sorry!

asdefghyk 11mo ago

RE ".....not a US citizen on US soil US law does not apply....." Does not maKE SENSE... Why are people extradited to US from overseas locations . Like why they want Julian Assange ?

raspasov 11mo ago
Just some ideas: - Drone-bombing an embassy in downtown London does not look good on social media - He's too famous and has many supporters in the Western world to be publicly assassinated, regardless of location (example: Lady Gaga visited him while he was stuck in the embassy) - He's more useful as a deterrent, i.e., "see what might happen to you", to the people who might decide to go a similar route. Some will go that route regardless, but chances are at least a few have been persuaded otherwise. For all the ridicule of the government, the Intelligence Community seems to be doing a fairly intelligent job most of the time to satisfy its objectives.
bulbar 11mo ago
It does not apply in general, but a country will always declare jurisdiction if deemed necessary. A common example in Germany is that the country will try to enforce German law for foreign-hosted websites hosted by citizen of another country if the website is targeted at German citizen.

brookst 11mo ago

Are you saying that non-citizen residents of the US are not subject to US laws? That seems dubious.

LastTrain 11mo ago

And we know for sure there were no US citizens on these boats?

godelski 11mo ago

> not a US citizen ***on US soil*** US law does not apply. 1) these strikes are happening in international waters 2) US law definitely applies to non citizens on US soil. Like that's such a ridiculous statement. Even if the law was "we can do whatever if you're not a citizen", that's still law... You think non citizens are all sovereign citizens bound to no law? To be able to do whatever they want? I didn't know my neighbor was a diplomat. I think you mean rights. Which this is much more dubious. The constitution definitely interchanges the use of "citizens" and "people". Notably the 11th amendment uses citizens, specifying belonging to states foreign or domestic. It was ratified only a few years after the Bill of rights, so not like a drastic language change happened. There are people who will argue "the people" means "citizens" but I find that a difficult interpretation if you read the constitution or federalist papers.

nerdsniper 11mo ago
3) quite a few US laws apply to US citizens on non-US soil (paying domestic taxes on foreign income) 4) US law applies to non-US citizens who have never set foot in the USA (Kim Dotcom)

mjanx123 11mo ago

A country jurisdiction is both territorial and personal, the laws apply to anyone on the soil, and to the citizens, permanent residents, asylum seekers etc anywhere in the universe.

anarticle 11mo ago

Oh sorry, I have the wrong polarity here: "not US citizen" on "not US soil" is what I meant. Sorry for the firestorm this created! What I mean to say is that the USA INTENTIONALLY violates rights of people outside the USA, expressed in things like the Patriot Act re:wiretapping, and also the spaces between passport control where they say "USA laws don't apply, our agents have purview to do essentially anything". If you check the discussions in the 00s about this the fed govt was very dicey and you can tell they were chomping at the bit to be able to have essentially NO OVERSIGHT on any of these massive violations of people's rights. I'll take the karma hit, there is no way to edit it apparently. Sorry!