7 ms·

There's more to the video than just that. For example: you should run your hot water tap before turning on your dishwasher, and you should experiment with the d

There's more to the video than just that. For example: you should run your hot water tap before turning on your dishwasher, and you should experiment with the dishwasher settings, because they can make a big difference.

bakje 11mo ago
Running the hot water tap beforehand assumes that the dishwasher is hooked up to the hot water in the first place, which isn’t common everywhere. Where I live this feature is called hot fill, I believe, and a lot of dishwashers don’t even support it. For those that do support its still generally not recommended to use it since the dishwasher now can’t do any rinsing with cold water, which is not only wasteful but I’ve heard the hot water can damage the water softener in your dishwasher. But if you do hook it up to hot water (which is a lot more common in the US, I think) this makes a lot of sense.
- mitthrowaway2 11mo ago
  And lo, there is verily even more information presented in the video than this thread has yet revealed. For what Alec says in the video is that this purge-the-cold-water advice is specific to North America, and he even explains the reasons why!
  - bakje 11mo ago
    Haha I have to admit I didn’t watch the whole video. In which case my comment still stands for those who also haven’t watched the whole video, which is probably a fair amount of people
  - krige 11mo ago
    He does mention it has to do with voltage and heating systems. I think it's something he covered on his kettle vid.
    - inferiorhuman 11mo ago
      He mentioned that it's not due to voltage but rather low current circuits. A 15 amp circuit translates to around 1,800 watts in the US and if you derate it to 80% of that like the NEC requires a continuous load you'd have around 1,440 watts available. His argument is that appliance manufacturers are trying to simplify their lineup by making models that would work in homes without a dedicated circuit (15 or 20 amp). Although I can't think of a better argument that still doesn't quite sound right to me. The NEC has required dedicated circuits for dishwashers for quite a while now and IIRC that requirement has been for a 20 amp circuit for a few decades. Even though you typically only see 15 amp receptacles, kitchens have required 20 amp circuits for somewhere north of forty years. I think a lot of his video is simply based on testing with crappy Whirlpool and AEG dishwashers. There's a reason why Bosch (and these days LG) dishwashers are pretty much universally recommended.
      - Turskarama 11mo ago
        It's the same issue, if you have a higher voltage then you can get more power without increasing current. For example in Australia a standard house circuit is 10 Amps, but because it's at 240V we can get 2400 Watts (realistically more like 2300) out of a _standard_ wall outlet that is in every room of your house.
        inferiorhuman 11mo ago
        It's not the same issue. The vast majority of kitchens in the US have 20 amp circuits (so 2,400 watts peak, 1,920 watts continuous) exclusively. It's a bog standard receptacle (NEMA 5-20R instead of 5-15R) that's backwards compatible with 15 amp plugs. In fact these days most 5-15R receptacles have identical guts to their 20 amp counterparts save for the additional provision for a horizontal blade. The electrical code (NEC) has started moving towards requiring 20 amp circuits in other rooms and more 20 amp circuits in kitchens.
        deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
- inferiorhuman 11mo ago
  the hot water can damage the water softener in your dishwasher Most dishwashers in the US don't come with water softeners. AFAIK European made American market Bosch 500/700 series ones do, but the American made ones do not. Both would be designed for connection to a hot water supply. As heated air drying (in the US) has fallen out of favor, hot rinse water will help things dry faster. To that end my Bosch dishwasher has an option to increase the temperature of the rinse water.
brewdad 11mo ago
I think one of his earlier videos suggested doing what I have always done. Load the dishwasher then do the hand washing. This ensures you have hot water ready to go since you’ve already been actively using it. When hand washing is done, run the dishwasher.
vasco 11mo ago
The whole point of getting a dishwasher is to not think about any of this though, for me.
- db48x 11mo ago
  That probably just means you’re using your machine badly.
  - stavros 11mo ago
    There's no user error, just bad design.
    - db48x 11mo ago
      This is an aphorism, not a truth. But it’s true that dish washing machines are often badly designed, especially when there are multiple opaque options that can be turned on and off. Consider the example presented in this very video, where the “Eco” cycle uses more water and more energy than the normal cycle and where the “High Temp” option adds more wash cycles as well as heating the water for longer. No amount of design can save the user from misunderstanding what these options do. The only way for the user to use the machine correctly is, at a minimum, to read and learn from the service guide (or other documentation) which gives explicit details about what each wash cycle is supposed to do. If you watch the supplementary video you’ll find that even that was incomplete and had errors; full understanding required hacking the dishwasher to reveal which parts of the machine were active (inlet, heater, pump, etc) and for how long. Therefore I stand by my assertion that if you refuse to learn the details of what your dishwasher actually does then you will probably be using it badly.
      - stavros 11mo ago
        I don't understand, though. You make the point that the user needs to read about the machine, but the very fact that the user needs to read about the machine points to bad design. A well-designed machine wouldn't have called a mode that user more energy and more water "eco".

bakje 11mo ago

Running the hot water tap beforehand assumes that the dishwasher is hooked up to the hot water in the first place, which isn’t common everywhere. Where I live this feature is called hot fill, I believe, and a lot of dishwashers don’t even support it. For those that do support its still generally not recommended to use it since the dishwasher now can’t do any rinsing with cold water, which is not only wasteful but I’ve heard the hot water can damage the water softener in your dishwasher. But if you do hook it up to hot water (which is a lot more common in the US, I think) this makes a lot of sense.

mitthrowaway2 11mo ago
And lo, there is verily even more information presented in the video than this thread has yet revealed. For what Alec says in the video is that this purge-the-cold-water advice is specific to North America, and he even explains the reasons why!
- bakje 11mo ago
  Haha I have to admit I didn’t watch the whole video. In which case my comment still stands for those who also haven’t watched the whole video, which is probably a fair amount of people
- krige 11mo ago
  He does mention it has to do with voltage and heating systems. I think it's something he covered on his kettle vid.
  - inferiorhuman 11mo ago
    He mentioned that it's not due to voltage but rather low current circuits. A 15 amp circuit translates to around 1,800 watts in the US and if you derate it to 80% of that like the NEC requires a continuous load you'd have around 1,440 watts available. His argument is that appliance manufacturers are trying to simplify their lineup by making models that would work in homes without a dedicated circuit (15 or 20 amp). Although I can't think of a better argument that still doesn't quite sound right to me. The NEC has required dedicated circuits for dishwashers for quite a while now and IIRC that requirement has been for a 20 amp circuit for a few decades. Even though you typically only see 15 amp receptacles, kitchens have required 20 amp circuits for somewhere north of forty years. I think a lot of his video is simply based on testing with crappy Whirlpool and AEG dishwashers. There's a reason why Bosch (and these days LG) dishwashers are pretty much universally recommended.
    - Turskarama 11mo ago
      It's the same issue, if you have a higher voltage then you can get more power without increasing current. For example in Australia a standard house circuit is 10 Amps, but because it's at 240V we can get 2400 Watts (realistically more like 2300) out of a _standard_ wall outlet that is in every room of your house.
      - inferiorhuman 11mo ago
        It's not the same issue. The vast majority of kitchens in the US have 20 amp circuits (so 2,400 watts peak, 1,920 watts continuous) exclusively. It's a bog standard receptacle (NEMA 5-20R instead of 5-15R) that's backwards compatible with 15 amp plugs. In fact these days most 5-15R receptacles have identical guts to their 20 amp counterparts save for the additional provision for a horizontal blade. The electrical code (NEC) has started moving towards requiring 20 amp circuits in other rooms and more 20 amp circuits in kitchens.
        deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
inferiorhuman 11mo ago
the hot water can damage the water softener in your dishwasher Most dishwashers in the US don't come with water softeners. AFAIK European made American market Bosch 500/700 series ones do, but the American made ones do not. Both would be designed for connection to a hot water supply. As heated air drying (in the US) has fallen out of favor, hot rinse water will help things dry faster. To that end my Bosch dishwasher has an option to increase the temperature of the rinse water.

brewdad 11mo ago

I think one of his earlier videos suggested doing what I have always done. Load the dishwasher then do the hand washing. This ensures you have hot water ready to go since you’ve already been actively using it. When hand washing is done, run the dishwasher.

vasco 11mo ago

The whole point of getting a dishwasher is to not think about any of this though, for me.

db48x 11mo ago
That probably just means you’re using your machine badly.
- stavros 11mo ago
  There's no user error, just bad design.
  - db48x 11mo ago
    This is an aphorism, not a truth. But it’s true that dish washing machines are often badly designed, especially when there are multiple opaque options that can be turned on and off. Consider the example presented in this very video, where the “Eco” cycle uses more water and more energy than the normal cycle and where the “High Temp” option adds more wash cycles as well as heating the water for longer. No amount of design can save the user from misunderstanding what these options do. The only way for the user to use the machine correctly is, at a minimum, to read and learn from the service guide (or other documentation) which gives explicit details about what each wash cycle is supposed to do. If you watch the supplementary video you’ll find that even that was incomplete and had errors; full understanding required hacking the dishwasher to reveal which parts of the machine were active (inlet, heater, pump, etc) and for how long. Therefore I stand by my assertion that if you refuse to learn the details of what your dishwasher actually does then you will probably be using it badly.
    - stavros 11mo ago
      I don't understand, though. You make the point that the user needs to read about the machine, but the very fact that the user needs to read about the machine points to bad design. A well-designed machine wouldn't have called a mode that user more energy and more water "eco".