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It's pretty clear to me that JavaScript is becoming the de facto standard for UI/UX programming, regardless of platform, and regardless of web vs. native target

It's pretty clear to me that JavaScript is becoming the de facto standard for UI/UX programming, regardless of platform, and regardless of web vs. native targets. Even GNOME has JavaScript bindings. [0] [0]: https://gjs.guide/ https://gjs.guide/

andoando 1y ago
Personally I love it. HTML/CSS is still the best, most well documented and familiar gui framework
- samdoesnothing 1y ago
  Have you used other ones? Not a dig, I've primarily used HTML/CSS for UIs and have been playing around with Compose recently and haven't made up my mind what I like more.
  - nish__ 1y ago
    Same here. I've grown to really love Jetpack Compose. Personally, I'd say I like it better than any other framework I've tried before.
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  The problem is performance... requiring a web browser to draw a UI takes a LOT of CPU and memory, and not all devices have enough power to deliver a smooth experience across all potential workloads. I worry that every year we keep increasing our processing requirements and bloat without good reason for it. Why should every Windows release require a faster and faster CPU, and more and more RAM? The recommended amount of memory for Windows 95 was 8 megabytes, and for Windows 11 it is 8 gigabytes. Why is this not horrifying? My small Linux system with openbox GUI barely cracks 100MB memory usage in 2025.
  - Rohansi 1y ago
    > requiring a web browser to draw a UI takes a LOT of CPU and memory What makes a browser so much more inefficient vs. other UI frameworks? Is it really the browser's fault or the website's you're visiting?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - troupo 1y ago
      What makes the browser slow and inefficient is the fact that it's not a UI framework. It's a system to display text and a couple of images on a 2D plane where every element depends on every other element. Almost every single interaction and change requires the browser to recalculate the layout of the entire page and to redraw it. It's basically Microsoft Word, with nearly the same behaviors. And there are no proper ways to prevent that behaviour. No lower and low level control over rendering. Awkward workarounds and hacks that browsers employ to try and minimize re-layouting and redrawing. Great rejoicing when introducing yet more hacks for basic things: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/css-ui/animate-to-height-auto https://developer.chrome.com/docs/css-ui/animate-to-height-a... etc.
      - wiseowise 1y ago
        That’s just plain wrong, even ChatGPT will rebuke your comment. I’m sure someone working on Blink/WebKit will just laugh at your comment.
        troupo 1y ago
        "even ChatGPT" lol Here's a deeper dive. It's about animations, but it explains issues in a nice way that "even ChatGPT" can understand: https://motion.dev/blog/web-animation-performance-tier-list https://motion.dev/blog/web-animation-performance-tier-list
      - Rohansi 1y ago
        > It's a system to display text and a couple of images on a 2D plane And how is that different from a UI framework? > Almost every single interaction and change requires the browser to recalculate the layout of the entire page and to redraw it. What UI frameworks don't do this?
  - shooly 1y ago
    > Why should every Windows release require a faster and faster CPU, and more and more RAM? I don't know. But does it? It doesn't seem like you verified that yourself - you're comparing stated recommended specs of Windows to actual usage of Linux.
  - edoceo 1y ago
    There are slim webviews, that can do core HTML and CSS, make a nice UI and not chew all the RAM.
    - ranger_danger 1y ago
      Could you provide some examples?
- NooneAtAll3 1y ago
  html/css yes js? get that thing off of me
ranger_danger 1y ago
From what I have seen, most of the current GNOME UI is in fact just javascript. And any plugins people write for it are also javascript.
- skydhash 1y ago
  GNOME has its own interpreter, kinda how React Native does it for mobile. But performance all boils down to the layout engine. Most native UI components take shortcuts with text which is the most difficult thing to render. And the widget tree is simpler. And there’s the whole inspector in web browser, meaning that the layout is not done once and forget. There’s various sub components still present for whatever features. Great in the browser, not great for standalone apps.
arvinsim 1y ago
Atwood's law strikes again[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Atwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Atwood
ConfuSomu 1y ago
Same thing with KDE Plasma and its UIs being written in QML, which allows better separation of business logic (written in C++) and graphical interface (QML Javascript).

andoando 1y ago

Personally I love it. HTML/CSS is still the best, most well documented and familiar gui framework

samdoesnothing 1y ago
Have you used other ones? Not a dig, I've primarily used HTML/CSS for UIs and have been playing around with Compose recently and haven't made up my mind what I like more.
- nish__ 1y ago
  Same here. I've grown to really love Jetpack Compose. Personally, I'd say I like it better than any other framework I've tried before.
ranger_danger 1y ago
The problem is performance... requiring a web browser to draw a UI takes a LOT of CPU and memory, and not all devices have enough power to deliver a smooth experience across all potential workloads. I worry that every year we keep increasing our processing requirements and bloat without good reason for it. Why should every Windows release require a faster and faster CPU, and more and more RAM? The recommended amount of memory for Windows 95 was 8 megabytes, and for Windows 11 it is 8 gigabytes. Why is this not horrifying? My small Linux system with openbox GUI barely cracks 100MB memory usage in 2025.
- Rohansi 1y ago
  > requiring a web browser to draw a UI takes a LOT of CPU and memory What makes a browser so much more inefficient vs. other UI frameworks? Is it really the browser's fault or the website's you're visiting?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - troupo 1y ago
    What makes the browser slow and inefficient is the fact that it's not a UI framework. It's a system to display text and a couple of images on a 2D plane where every element depends on every other element. Almost every single interaction and change requires the browser to recalculate the layout of the entire page and to redraw it. It's basically Microsoft Word, with nearly the same behaviors. And there are no proper ways to prevent that behaviour. No lower and low level control over rendering. Awkward workarounds and hacks that browsers employ to try and minimize re-layouting and redrawing. Great rejoicing when introducing yet more hacks for basic things: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/css-ui/animate-to-height-auto https://developer.chrome.com/docs/css-ui/animate-to-height-a... etc.
    - wiseowise 1y ago
      That’s just plain wrong, even ChatGPT will rebuke your comment. I’m sure someone working on Blink/WebKit will just laugh at your comment.
      - troupo 1y ago
        "even ChatGPT" lol Here's a deeper dive. It's about animations, but it explains issues in a nice way that "even ChatGPT" can understand: https://motion.dev/blog/web-animation-performance-tier-list https://motion.dev/blog/web-animation-performance-tier-list
    - Rohansi 1y ago
      > It's a system to display text and a couple of images on a 2D plane And how is that different from a UI framework? > Almost every single interaction and change requires the browser to recalculate the layout of the entire page and to redraw it. What UI frameworks don't do this?
- shooly 1y ago
  > Why should every Windows release require a faster and faster CPU, and more and more RAM? I don't know. But does it? It doesn't seem like you verified that yourself - you're comparing stated recommended specs of Windows to actual usage of Linux.
- edoceo 1y ago
  There are slim webviews, that can do core HTML and CSS, make a nice UI and not chew all the RAM.
  - ranger_danger 1y ago
    Could you provide some examples?
NooneAtAll3 1y ago
html/css yes js? get that thing off of me

ranger_danger 1y ago

From what I have seen, most of the current GNOME UI is in fact just javascript. And any plugins people write for it are also javascript.

skydhash 1y ago
GNOME has its own interpreter, kinda how React Native does it for mobile. But performance all boils down to the layout engine. Most native UI components take shortcuts with text which is the most difficult thing to render. And the widget tree is simpler. And there’s the whole inspector in web browser, meaning that the layout is not done once and forget. There’s various sub components still present for whatever features. Great in the browser, not great for standalone apps.

arvinsim 1y ago

Atwood's law strikes again[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Atwood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Atwood

ConfuSomu 1y ago

Same thing with KDE Plasma and its UIs being written in QML, which allows better separation of business logic (written in C++) and graphical interface (QML Javascript).