3 ms·

Is that actual statistic?

by watwut 1y ago

rogerrogerr 1y ago
Airliners are hilariously safe. One of my favorite stats is that it’s the second safest form of transportation per passenger mile (elevators win).
- ferguess_k 1y ago
  How about per fly versus per drive? This weeds out two issues: - Most people don't fly often enough to justify Statistics significance (I for one only flied maybe less than 10 flights in my whole life) - One flight is going to cover a huge amount of mileage anyway Edit: Just realized that issue 1 is not an issue, we are going to do an average here anyway, so not individual.
- watwut 1y ago
  Living rooms are also hilariously safe. And we spend a lot of time in them. Is there actual reason to think they are less safe per hour of time being spend in them as OP claimed?
  - anonymars 1y ago
    Stairs?
    - rogerrogerr 1y ago
      Spouses
- kccqzy 1y ago
  Per passenger mile is arguably not the best denominator. People choose planes because they are going long distances. Consider whether a better denominator would be per passenger trips. A 10,000 mi trip halfway across the world could have the same weight as a 2 mi trip to the grocery store. Or per hour travelled. By these metrics commercial flying isn't as safe as you think.
  - rogerrogerr 1y ago
    If I’m going somewhere in the continental US, my choices are to fly or drive. I’ll be traveling the same number of miles either way, so the relevant comparison is indeed per mile.
    - kccqzy 1y ago
      That doesn't explain anything. Specifically it doesn't explain why in our comparisons the destination is fixed. You could decide for this weekend trip we're going to budget a max of 3 hours on transportation. Should we take a three hour flight to a different state or should we drive for three hours to a closer destination?
      - rogerrogerr 1y ago
        This just isn’t how normal people behave. They are starting with a destination (relatives, national park, etc.) and then choosing how to get there.
        kccqzy 1y ago
        That's not how normal people behave. If people choose a faraway destination first they are implicitly assuming they will fly there.
  - noir_lord 1y ago
    except 10,000 miles by anything but air isn't a single trip, it'd be multiple trips and involve a boat so that's not really a fair comparison either. Furthest you can go in a straight land on land is about 7000 miles :).
IAmBroom 1y ago
rogerrogerr, I suspect that stat involves all deaths, not just to passengers. The vast majority of deaths by train involve "trespassers", which is code for "dimwits who bypassed crossing gates and got smashed by the train that couldn't stop". Usually not even the train drivers are injured, much less the passengers. But airplanes are very safe - perhaps mostly because it's hard for idiots to drive in front of them.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  Two nits: First, you are correct about trespassers. But even if you only consider passengers, planes are still safer per passenger-mile than trains. Second, commercial planes are very safe. Private planes... not in the same league.
- watwut 1y ago
  Yeah, but so are living rooms. And even when someone dies in the living room, it is most likely to be a hearth attack or other heath issue unrelated to the place.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  > which is code for "dimwits who bypassed crossing gates and got smashed by the train that couldn't stop". It's code for suicide. The remainder are as you described.
uyzstvqs 1y ago
Actual statistics: In 2023 there were 35.3 million commercial flights worldwide.[1] In that year, there were 66 accidents in commercial aviation worldwide, of which one fatal (9N-ANC).[2] This means that the chance of being in an accident was approx 1:535,000 (0.000187 %). The chance of getting into a fatal accident was 1:35,300,000 (0.000003 %). Per passenger the chance of fatality was approx 1:61,111,111 (0.00000164 %), with 72 fatalities among 4,400,000,000 total passengers. In contrast, the United States saw 125,700 preventable deaths in the home in 2023.[3] The country had a population of 336,806,231 people back then.[4] This means a probability of approx 1:2,679 (0.037 %). [1] ATAG Aviation Beyond Borders 2024 [2] ICAO Safety Report 2024 Edition [3] National Safety Council (NSC) Injury Facts [4] World Bank

Is that actual statistic?

by watwut 1y ago

Is that actual statistic?

Airliners are hilariously safe. One of my favorite stats is that it’s the second safest form of transportation per passenger mile (elevators win).

ferguess_k 1y ago
How about per fly versus per drive? This weeds out two issues: - Most people don't fly often enough to justify Statistics significance (I for one only flied maybe less than 10 flights in my whole life) - One flight is going to cover a huge amount of mileage anyway Edit: Just realized that issue 1 is not an issue, we are going to do an average here anyway, so not individual.
watwut 1y ago
Living rooms are also hilariously safe. And we spend a lot of time in them. Is there actual reason to think they are less safe per hour of time being spend in them as OP claimed?
- anonymars 1y ago
  Stairs?
  - rogerrogerr 1y ago
    Spouses
kccqzy 1y ago
Per passenger mile is arguably not the best denominator. People choose planes because they are going long distances. Consider whether a better denominator would be per passenger trips. A 10,000 mi trip halfway across the world could have the same weight as a 2 mi trip to the grocery store. Or per hour travelled. By these metrics commercial flying isn't as safe as you think.
- rogerrogerr 1y ago
  If I’m going somewhere in the continental US, my choices are to fly or drive. I’ll be traveling the same number of miles either way, so the relevant comparison is indeed per mile.
  - kccqzy 1y ago
    That doesn't explain anything. Specifically it doesn't explain why in our comparisons the destination is fixed. You could decide for this weekend trip we're going to budget a max of 3 hours on transportation. Should we take a three hour flight to a different state or should we drive for three hours to a closer destination?
    - rogerrogerr 1y ago
      This just isn’t how normal people behave. They are starting with a destination (relatives, national park, etc.) and then choosing how to get there.
      - kccqzy 1y ago
        That's not how normal people behave. If people choose a faraway destination first they are implicitly assuming they will fly there.
- noir_lord 1y ago
  except 10,000 miles by anything but air isn't a single trip, it'd be multiple trips and involve a boat so that's not really a fair comparison either. Furthest you can go in a straight land on land is about 7000 miles :).

IAmBroom 1y ago

rogerrogerr, I suspect that stat involves all deaths, not just to passengers. The vast majority of deaths by train involve "trespassers", which is code for "dimwits who bypassed crossing gates and got smashed by the train that couldn't stop". Usually not even the train drivers are injured, much less the passengers. But airplanes are very safe - perhaps mostly because it's hard for idiots to drive in front of them.

AnimalMuppet 1y ago
Two nits: First, you are correct about trespassers. But even if you only consider passengers, planes are still safer per passenger-mile than trains. Second, commercial planes are very safe. Private planes... not in the same league.
watwut 1y ago
Yeah, but so are living rooms. And even when someone dies in the living room, it is most likely to be a hearth attack or other heath issue unrelated to the place.
potato3732842 1y ago
> which is code for "dimwits who bypassed crossing gates and got smashed by the train that couldn't stop". It's code for suicide. The remainder are as you described.

uyzstvqs 1y ago

Actual statistics: In 2023 there were 35.3 million commercial flights worldwide.[1] In that year, there were 66 accidents in commercial aviation worldwide, of which one fatal (9N-ANC).[2] This means that the chance of being in an accident was approx 1:535,000 (0.000187 %). The chance of getting into a fatal accident was 1:35,300,000 (0.000003 %). Per passenger the chance of fatality was approx 1:61,111,111 (0.00000164 %), with 72 fatalities among 4,400,000,000 total passengers. In contrast, the United States saw 125,700 preventable deaths in the home in 2023.[3] The country had a population of 336,806,231 people back then.[4] This means a probability of approx 1:2,679 (0.037 %). [1] ATAG Aviation Beyond Borders 2024 [2] ICAO Safety Report 2024 Edition [3] National Safety Council (NSC) Injury Facts [4] World Bank