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Meanwhile in pretty much all other nations you go online to the free website, see your employer contributions already filled in and acknowledge they are correct
by AnotherGoodName 11mo ago
Meanwhile in pretty much all other nations you go online to the free website, see your employer contributions already filled in and acknowledge they are correct for the year, add any extra income, check boxes for relevant deductions and you’re done.
- foxglacier 11mo agoDoesn't America have uniquely complicated tax that requires you to keep all your receipts to claim all sorts of confusing deductions? How can the IRS know what you spent your income on if you don't tell them? I've had the misfortune of having to fill in a W8-BEN-E form [1] and the first time, I just gave up and refused to work with the client because it was too complicated. The 2nd time, I got an LLM to tell me how to fill it in. Just look at the dense jargon - nonparticipating FFI, deemed-compliant FFI, Restricted distributor, International organiztion (hint, that's the wrong answer), Excepted territory NFFE, Passive NFFE, Direct reporting NFFE. There are 32 of them! What the hell is all that? Well 99% of cases are just one of those buried among the rest but you wouldn't know which without some advice. [1] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8bene.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8bene.pdf
- ptmcc 11mo agoThe majority of Americans are W2 wage earners that take the standard deduction.
- thayne 11mo agoFor most people, those deductions are less than the "standard" deduction you can take instead. For most of the people who do itemized deductions, it's mostly just your mortgage payment and state taxes, which the IRS already knows about, and maybe charitable donations. And even if you do have a lot of things to report, why not just report those things directly and let the IRS calculate your taxes, rather than you having to do it, fill out a complicated form, then the IRS does the calculation anyways to make sure you did it right?
- tietjens 11mo agoFor a truly uniquely complicated tax system please move to Germany.
- thesumofall 11mo agoWhile I fully agree that there are a lot of complicated rules for edge cases, for simple (non self employed) cases it is very straightforward. In fact, you don’t have to do anything at all in many cases and still won’t be screwed over as the German IRS will assume typical deductions. There is an official free filing software and if you spend 20-30 USD a year you’ll get access to super easy to use professional filing software. My situation is more complicated than most and I spend 2hrs a year for my entire family
- fragmede 11mo agoWhy stop there? If you reside in multiple countries, then it really gets fun.
- simoncion 11mo ago> Just look at the dense jargon ... There are 32 of them! What the hell is all that? For every form I've ever had to file with the IRS, there's a corresponding set of instructions. Those instructions inevitably have a definitions section and/or define the terms in-line. The instructions for form W8-BEN-E are at [0]. The definitions section starts at printed page 4 and continues through to printed page 7. Some terms you mentioned (like "Excepted territory NFFE") are not in the definitions section, but are described in their own sections. I'm definitely not going to claim that it's foolish to consult with a tax lawyer (or similar such thing) when one is significantly uncertain about one's taxes. I'm definitely going to object to your implied claim that the IRS dumps a bunch of jargon on you and leaves you to rely on general-purpose search engines to figure out what the fuck they're talking about. [0] <https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8bene.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8bene.pdf>
- cactacea 11mo agoJust follow the instructions? From your linked PDF: > The time needed to complete and file this form will vary depending on individual circumstances. The estimated average time is: Recordkeeping, 12 hr., 40 min.; Learning about the law or the form, 4 hr., 17 min.; Preparing and sending the form, 8 hr., 16 min.
- simoncion 11mo ago> Just follow the instructions? I spoke in objection to one very specific claim: > [The] implied claim that the IRS dumps a bunch of jargon on you and leaves you to rely on general-purpose search engines to figure out what the fuck they're talking about. Feel free to imagine that I was addressing something else. It's a free country and all. You also might want to look at the estimated average time for a non-business taxpayer to complete a 1040. If the 1040 estimate methodology is typical, then those estimates are pretty pessimistic.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- foxglacier 11mo ago
- realusername 11mo agoI highly doubt that it's more complicated than the French or German tax system.
- sofixa 11mo agoBased on what? The French tax system is pretty simple. Taxes are high, but simple. The website you use to file your taxes is also pretty simple, and every single field has a button that explains what it is about and in which cases you should write stuff inside. The only annoying parts are if you have accounts outside of France, you have to declare them. And if you get dividends/capital gains in foreign currencies outside of the EU, you have to calculate yourself how much tax you owe using a bunch of tables per country and currency.
- realusername 11mo agoFor basic taxes yes but you have annex forms which are 20 pages long in the french system.
- sofixa 11mo agoYes, and? Nobody would fill all annexes. They are annexes because they're not part of the common path, and are only needed in specific scenarios. Their length is kind of irrelevant.
- terminalshort 11mo agoThis is exactly the way it works in the US. All the really complex parts are never even used by 99% of people.
- Thorrez 11mo ago20 pages? My 2024 full pdf from turbotax was 644 pages.
- QQ00 11mo ago
- ainiriand 11mo agoWhen you say America you certainly mean USA? Or is America a country now?
- drysine 11mo ago[flagged]
- array_key_first 11mo agoAmerica is colloquially the USA. The Americas is something else. South America is something else. North America is something else.
- drysine 11mo agoThat time has passed.
- Dylan16807 11mo agoNow you have me really curious. When did "that time" start, and when did it end?
- 1718627440 11mo agoMaybe it started, when the USA became the global power in the half of the 20th century and it stopped when they lost being the free and aspiring country others countries think they should model after, which might be in 2001, or when they openly started extorting their (former) allies, which is under Trump.
- drysine 11mo agoWell, in the 90s there was almost total adoration of the US in Russia and America meant only one thing - the US. Decade later the US lost most of its soft power due to the abuse of its dominant military and economic position in the world and then lost its dominant position too with the rise of the economies around the world. People now see the US as a strong state on the lands of native Americans on the continent called North America.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- terminalshort 11mo agoWhich is basically how it works here too. If you just have W-2 income from an employer it takes less than 10 minutes to fill out the form. Sure, the system you mention is more convenient, but the difference is minimal.
- rcbdev 11mo agoThe system he mentioned is usually equally simple for self-employed.
- terminalshort 11mo agoWhen I have had 1099s from consulting work it has also been very easy to file. Not quite as easy as Direct File could make it, but pretty damn easy.
- chneu 11mo agoLol not really in practice.
- wildzzz 11mo agoThe IRS already has most of my tax information and knows the tax code. Why must I deal with a third party (and potentially have to pay them) to electronically file my own taxes?
- Amezarak 11mo agoYou don't have to pay. https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... As for "having most of your tax information", they don't. They know your reported income. You see that on your W2s/1099s/etc. What they don't know is whether or not you had a kid this year, or whether you lost a kid this year, whether you got married or divorced, if your spouse is claiming the kids this year or not, the number or amount of your charitable contributions, whether you have deductible mileage expenses, or a million other things.
- 11mo ago
- jandrewrogers 11mo agoRemember, Americans have to file taxes separately to the State and Federal government. The Federal government has little authority to dictate State taxes. The paperwork is in part a coordination problem between the State and Federal governments. Basic taxes are trivial in the US if you just work to live, it is essentially one page. However, there is an extremely long and fat tail where the government has no way of knowing the correct details to compute your taxes. There are myriad subsidies and offsets that have to be accounted for, many of which depend on what State you live in. If you earn a lot of money, like the tech people that frequent this website, you are much more likely to find yourself in that fat tail. It can become esoteric quite quickly. The Federal tax code has to accommodate the completely independent tax codes of all 50 States in a reasonable way.
- RajT88 11mo agoIt is not that complex. RSU's or options are pretty straightforward. Deductions can get esoteric if you sold a bunch of stock. Even then, not that bad.
- jandrewrogers 11mo agoCongratulations on having simple taxes. It can definitely get more complex. There is a reason Americans spend staggering amounts of time and money on tax preparation. It is simple until it isn’t.
- mulmen 11mo agoYes, the reason is Intuit.
- projektfu 11mo agoYes, it's complicated because the tax code has been designed for special cases, where there is an opportunity cost to identify and use the special case, but that can be paid for with large enough savings. If hiring that tax preparer/accountant costs $1000 more, but reduces the tax by $1001, then it is economically worthwhile. But in reality, most people are not able to use these provisions and of those who technically can, only a few can use them efficiently. If you mostly have income from wages, interest, and dividends, your tax is hard to reduce using special provisions and your return is easy to file. If you have a lot of income from business investments, property, minerals, esoteric securities, gambling, etc., then you have more places where you can use these things, and your taxes are accordingly complex.
- hliyan 11mo agoThis is true even of some third world countries like Sri Lanka (where I live). There is a web-based system called RAMIS (Revenue Administration Management Information System). Any taxpayer can log in using their tax identification number and file their taxes.
- cyanydeez 11mo agoHating taxes is an intentional regressive system to ensure its complex and is politically expedient to "cut".