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> Do runways have some sort of barrier between them and the next "important" thing. It seems like that would be prudent both for cases like this Ha, Jeju Air F
by FabHK 1y ago
> Do runways have some sort of barrier between them and the next "important" thing. It seems like that would be prudent both for cases like this
Ha, Jeju Air Flight 2216 smashed into a barrier on the second landing attempt in Muan last year [0], and people commented "How could there be a barrier at the end of the runway, so obviously stupid, irresponsible", etc.
Now a plane does not smash into a barrier at the end of the runway and people suggest putting barriers at the end of the runway.
Don't mean to attack parent post, but may I suggest that
a) hordes of experts have thought long and hard about these issues, and it is unlikely that you can encounter this for the first time as a lay person and come up with a solution that has eluded the best engineers for decades ("why don't they attach a parachute to the plane?"), and
b) we are very close to an optimum in commercial aviation, and there are few if any unambiguous ("Pareto") improvements, but rather just tradeoffs. For example: You leave cockpit doors open, terrorists come in and commandeer the plane to turn it into a weapon. You lock the cockpit doors closed, and suicidal pilots lock out the rest of the crew and commandeer the plane to turn it into a weapon of mass-murder-suicide.
There are no easy answers.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_Air_Flight_2216 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_Air_Flight_2216
ETA: In 2007 an A320 overran a runway in Brazil and crashed into a gas station, killing 187 pax & crew + 12 on the ground. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Airlines_Flight_3054 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Airlines_Flight_3054
- linehedonist 1y agoOne improvement is a bed of concrete at the end of the runway that will catch the wheels and slow an airplane down to a stop. Pretty much everyone agrees it’s a good idea but it’s not always possible due to space needs or cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_...
- hshdhdhehd 1y agoIf it costs too much it is also a bad idea. Why? Because that money can be spent on other safety.
- brazzy 1y agoThe Wikipedia article says exactly the opposite, citing hard numers.
- rob74 1y agoIf you're designing a new airport, sure, you can have runways with ample safety margins and generous overrun areas at the end of the runways. If you want to make an existing airport safer, and you can't buy up and demolish buildings around it, using EMAS is actually a cost-effective safety improvement.
- amelius 1y agoAlso put the fire department right next to it. Or some kind of automated extinguisher.
- fullstop 1y agoThere was a young girl who survived the crash of Asiana flight 214, but was run over by a firetruck because she was covered in extinguisher foam.
- amelius 1y ago=> Don't drive through the foam.
- amelius 1y ago> Later investigations concluded that Ye was already dead from severe injuries caused by being ejected from the aircraft. from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214
- fuzzythinker 1y agoOr a ramp with "one-way teeth" that stops it with gravity and stops it from sliding back down with teeth.
- nedrylandJP 1y agoSounds like a much more substantial runaway truck ramp
- kijin 1y agoThe ramp will need to be very long and very high in order to absorb the momentum of a fully loaded widebody jet. Not something that you'd want near a runway where planes can land in either direction.
- hshdhdhehd 1y agoThe plane is fast and heavy.
- potato3732842 1y agoAnd fragile and will go splat if you try and do anything approaching a runaway truck ramp to it.
- hshdhdhehd 1y agolinehedonist's comment is an idea that is shown to work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_...
- csomar 1y agoThe solution is to "free" the perimeter of takeoff/landing. Bonus: People don't have to chose to work/live in these noisy areas. I understand some areas have challenges to come up with space but the US has tons of space and maybe the sea should be used to host these airports.
- pixl97 1y agoThis is how almost all airports built in the last 50 years have worked. They were built way outside the cities. The cities grew to the airports. More so, because of strong property rights it's very difficult to stop any development near the airports at all. The airport would have to buy up hundreds of square miles of land to prevent it at a staggering cost. Lastly, one of the buildings that was hit was the UPS warehouse that stored goods to load on the plane. You want that as close as possible to the airport. Though right at the end of the runway is not the greatest place.
- Der_Einzige 1y agoAfter 9/11, unlock the pilot doors. The passengers will revolt against any attempted aircraft hijackings. We need members of the public ready to help in a situation where a pilot goes crazy, and they can’t help with a locked door making it impossible for them to enter.
- lostlogin 1y agoDo we need that? MH370 may have benefitted, but it’s hardly a common problem.
- mrosett 1y agoThe belief is that MH370 was depressurized which would have killed the passengers. A better example is Germanwings 9525 where the locked door allowed the first officer to crash the plane.
- FabHK 1y ago> After 9/11, unlock the pilot doors. The passengers will revolt against any attempted aircraft hijackings. Regulations for locked cockpit doors were only introduced after 9/11, IIRC.