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With all due respect, but almost all I see in this thread is people looking down their nose at a proven solution, and giving advice instead of doing the work. I
by mariusor 1y ago
With all due respect, but almost all I see in this thread is people looking down their nose at a proven solution, and giving advice instead of doing the work. I can see how you are a _very important person_ with bills to pay and money to make, but at least have the humility of understanding that the solution we got is better than the solution that could be better if only there was someone else to think of it and build it.
- yumechii 1y ago[dead]
- mariusor 1y agoIt's weird that you get offended by something which was not directed at you. "The work" is providing those better alternatives to anubis, that everyone in this thread except for Xe seem to know all about. The humility is about accepting the fact that the solution works for some people, the small site operators that get hammered by DDoSes and unethical LLM over crawling, despite not being perfect. And if that inconveniences you as a user of those sites - which I imagine is what you mean by "user backlash", the solution for you is to stop going there, not talk down at them for doing something about an issue that impacts them.
- yumechii 1y agoHow am I offended? Did I accuse you of anything? I didn't even accuse Anubis of anything. You asked for the work, I post the work and evidence to ground the discussion in "work", as you demanded.
- mariusor 1y agoI repeat "the work" is to make a better thing than Anubis, not provide proof of concept that it can be beaten. :)
- yumechii 1y agoYou criticized what you identified as an "advice" for not providing work to your scope (which you clarified as "make a better thing than Anubis"), why should I suddenly have to meet your scope of "work" to be a valid criticism of your advice this time? Showing a negative result is also work.
- mariusor 1y agoIf you're operating your reasoning in a moral framework where helping the bad agents is a good outcome, then you'd be right. I personally do not, however.
- yumechii 1y agoIf your moral framework is supporting a nominally good "solution" with no evidence (where if your evidence that your assertion the solution is "proven"?) is "a good outcome", pointing out the solution is flawed, with evidence, is somehow not, then you'd be right. I personally do not share your nominal goodness compass, however.
- mariusor 1y agoCodeberg and sourcehut[1] have both blogged about Anubis decreasing loads on their servers at the beginning of the year when this saga has started. Since then, one, or both have moved to different solutions, but that was not due to ineffectiveness but rather to requiring JavaScript. [1] https://sourcehut.org/blog/2025-04-15-you-cannot-have-our-users-data/ https://sourcehut.org/blog/2025-04-15-you-cannot-have-our-us...
- yumechii 1y agoEmpirical evidence is more robust than anecdotal evidence. Also, a lower "server load" has nothing to do with the system being collectively "a good outcome" that justifies labeling criticism as supporting "the bad guys".
- tptacek 1y agoYou can't moralize a flawed design into being a good one.
- mariusor 1y agoHow about into a "good enough one"?
- tptacek 1y agoLook, I don't care if you run Anubis. I'm not against "Anubis". I'm interested in the computer science of the current Anubis implementation. It's not great. It doesn't make sense. Those are descriptive observations, and you can't moralize them into being false; you need to present an actual argument.
- mariusor 1y agoThis is not me being aggro because you're picking on my favourite project, I dislike Anubis for more or less the same complaints you see in this thread. I don't want JavaScript on otherwise static sites, I don't like the anime girl, etc. What I don't agree with is people like you pontificating about what an inferior solution it is, and *how* obvious that should be for everybody, but you fail to provide any better alternatives. So, I guess that what I'm trying to say, is to put up or shut up.
- tptacek 1y agoSorry, but I really can't think of anything less interesting to debate than how a computer science argument makes you feel about how it might make someone else feel.
- mariusor 1y agoI don't know in how many more different ways I can say it, but I'm not inviting you to debate, I'm inviting you to write a better tool and make it accessible for free.