5 ms·

the real question is: when and in what form will it be re-proposed next?

roelschroeven 1y ago
Probably combined with a bunch of unrelated laws, in an unrelated legislative committee, all to try to keep it out of public attention.
ryandrake 1y ago
As often as possible. They only have to win once. The people need to win every single time.
- marginalia_nu 1y ago
  This is pretty problematic for the EU as an institution. It is actively undermining its already questionable legitimacy. The powers that be largely aren't democratically elected, and there really aren't any mechanisms with which European citizens can hold them accountable for their actions. Every time they pull a stunt like this, this becomes a little bit more clear. If the EU wants to avoid the spread of euroskeptic populist parties, they should be working to patch the system and be building legitimacy and credibility, rather than be seen working to undermine it.
  - NicuCalcea 1y ago
    Chat Control is an initiative of the Council of the European Union, which is made up of ministers from each member state. Citizens can hold them accountable the same way they hold their ministers accountable normally.
    - SiempreViernes 1y ago
      Not really, chat control comes from the comission, the current news is about the councils struggle to formally reach a position on that proposal.
      - NicuCalcea 1y ago
        Ah, you're right, thanks for the correction.
      - rsynnott 1y ago
        The commission are also nominated by national governments; they’re essentially a weird type of minister. Now, I think there is a problem here; in many countries the public can barely bring themselves to care about the European Parliament elections, nevermind who their government nominates as commissioner. But ultimately it is as much in the public’s hands as a ministerial appointment.
    - marginalia_nu 1y ago
      This is correct, but in practice, this accountability is so diluted that they're free to do whatever they want as far as public accountability is concerned up to the point what they do is so unpopular that a majority of voters across the union decide that replacing the council is more important than selecting their national parliament. Then there's the commission, which is even less accountable to the voters.
      - timeon 1y ago
        Commission is also nominated by national governments (like ministers are in those governments). So in the end it is still about people holding accountable ruling parties in member countries.
  - petre 1y ago
    Perhaps we should start throwing politicians in the garbage bin like the Ukrainians used to? Maybe then they'll get a hint? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8q-Zx8gIbg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8q-Zx8gIbg
- pqtyw 1y ago
  To be fair it would be outright unconstitutional in a at least a few EU countries. Then there are the courts on the European level. One way to truly kill it might be to allow Chat Control to go to the end where it actually becomes a major issue on the national level in those countries. Of course that would be a very, very risk approach...
  - generic92034 1y ago
    Losing court cases rarely impresses politicians to abandon laws they have set their mind on. See, for example, the laws about forcing telecommunications providers to retain metadata of their customers. In Germany this got struck down by the constitutional court time and again. But that does not stop the major political parties to start yet another attempt.
gblargg 1y ago
Or done quietly outside of the public's attention, assuming it's not already being done.

Probably combined with a bunch of unrelated laws, in an unrelated legislative committee, all to try to keep it out of public attention.

ryandrake 1y ago

As often as possible. They only have to win once. The people need to win every single time.

marginalia_nu 1y ago
This is pretty problematic for the EU as an institution. It is actively undermining its already questionable legitimacy. The powers that be largely aren't democratically elected, and there really aren't any mechanisms with which European citizens can hold them accountable for their actions. Every time they pull a stunt like this, this becomes a little bit more clear. If the EU wants to avoid the spread of euroskeptic populist parties, they should be working to patch the system and be building legitimacy and credibility, rather than be seen working to undermine it.
- NicuCalcea 1y ago
  Chat Control is an initiative of the Council of the European Union, which is made up of ministers from each member state. Citizens can hold them accountable the same way they hold their ministers accountable normally.
  - SiempreViernes 1y ago
    Not really, chat control comes from the comission, the current news is about the councils struggle to formally reach a position on that proposal.
    - NicuCalcea 1y ago
      Ah, you're right, thanks for the correction.
    - rsynnott 1y ago
      The commission are also nominated by national governments; they’re essentially a weird type of minister. Now, I think there is a problem here; in many countries the public can barely bring themselves to care about the European Parliament elections, nevermind who their government nominates as commissioner. But ultimately it is as much in the public’s hands as a ministerial appointment.
  - marginalia_nu 1y ago
    This is correct, but in practice, this accountability is so diluted that they're free to do whatever they want as far as public accountability is concerned up to the point what they do is so unpopular that a majority of voters across the union decide that replacing the council is more important than selecting their national parliament. Then there's the commission, which is even less accountable to the voters.
    - timeon 1y ago
      Commission is also nominated by national governments (like ministers are in those governments). So in the end it is still about people holding accountable ruling parties in member countries.
- petre 1y ago
  Perhaps we should start throwing politicians in the garbage bin like the Ukrainians used to? Maybe then they'll get a hint? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8q-Zx8gIbg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8q-Zx8gIbg
pqtyw 1y ago
To be fair it would be outright unconstitutional in a at least a few EU countries. Then there are the courts on the European level. One way to truly kill it might be to allow Chat Control to go to the end where it actually becomes a major issue on the national level in those countries. Of course that would be a very, very risk approach...
- generic92034 1y ago
  Losing court cases rarely impresses politicians to abandon laws they have set their mind on. See, for example, the laws about forcing telecommunications providers to retain metadata of their customers. In Germany this got struck down by the constitutional court time and again. But that does not stop the major political parties to start yet another attempt.

gblargg 1y ago

Or done quietly outside of the public's attention, assuming it's not already being done.