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Then Nvidia is turning around and investing back in the AI companies so they can in turn buy Nvidia chips...

by cjonas 11mo ago

testdelacc1 11mo ago
At least investing in companies that will buy Nvidia makes sense somewhat, even if it feels dodgy. What possible sense does it make for Nvidia to invest in a maker of telecom equipment (Nokia) with no public plan, and the value of the investment jumps 30% as soon as it’s announced? It’s not like call routing needs to be “AI enabled” or they’re putting Nvidia GPUs in their custom silicon. Feels like Nvidia has too much money and they know whatever they invest in will appreciate thanks to the “AI premium” that investors bestow.
- Atreiden 11mo ago
  Nokia had some of the best mobile hardware (and software!) in the game until they were bought by Microsoft and promptly killed. I've been patiently waiting for their resurgence. Building embedded/mobile devices is their forte, which is also coincidentally the hardware space where AI is most poised to shine. Nvidia made a move in the same direction when they tried to acquire ARM. That got antitrusted (fairly so) but investing in a now-decimated telecom company isn't likely to ruffle any feathers this way.
  - wood_spirit 11mo ago
    (Nokia went from king to pauper in the year when the iPhone and then Android launched. They death spiralled and Elop was brought in a few years later to transition them to using Microsoft Windows mobile. However, windows mobile was as old and uncompetitive as Symbian so couldn’t compete. Was very obvious at the time although the boards seem to have been living in their dream worlds)
  - dale_glass 11mo ago
    > I've been patiently waiting for their resurgence. Building embedded/mobile devices is their forte Wouldn't most of those people have gone elsewhere by now? If you're a mobile device superstar, why would you stick around at Nokia once the mobile device part of it crashed and burned? A company's just a legal structure, people change over time. And that was more than 10 years ago, and didn't they sell their mobile division to Microsoft?
  - iberator 11mo ago
    nokia is live and well. It is tier 1 player in teleco hardware
- nradov 11mo ago
  Nokia has a public plan to build 6G network infrastructure. I'm not sure how realistic it is. https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-nokia-ai-telecommunications https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-nokia-ai-telecommu...
- klipklop 11mo ago
  There is a public plan (literal press releases) and it is to use Nvidia Grace chips in Nokia’s future RAN products. Seems to have cooling issues but seems to be a nice chip for the most part. Nvidia quietly in the background is getting more interested in the network side of things and are hiring accordingly. This is an area I don’t really think you have all the details to have an opinion on imo.
ailegalbeagle 11mo ago
Which is perfectly legal, correct?
- ailegalbeagle 11mo ago
  I'll answer my own comment, yes, it is legal. If there are any known issues indicating wrong doing, report it to the DOJ or FTC.
scotty79 11mo ago
Nvidia is basically allowing some of its clients to pay with partial ownership of their companies instead of with cash for the chips they want, because there's simply not enough cash in them for the lofty goals lots of people think are achievable.
- jonway 11mo ago
  God that sounds so crazy. Its giving me "sell our municipal water to Private Equity to buy a park, imagine the tax revenue!" vibes except its just diluting the shares. It feels like economics in the US is turning into FanDuel mobile gambling. Can we pass a law to disincentivize this garbage and make them start paying dividends again?
  - tarsinge 11mo ago
    Isn’t the problem rooted in stock buybacks? Making it illegal could bring dividends and realign incentives.
    - jonway 11mo ago
      Please! Has Amazon ever paid out a dividend???
  - scotty79 11mo ago
    It's more like "I'm making so much bread and have so much money already. You are making clothes but don't have enough money to buy bread from me to feed your workers so you can't grow. I think our village population will soon explode and there's going to be huge need for your clothing. So how about I give you money to buy bread from me in exchange for partial ownership of your business and its future profits?" It's a perfectly reasonable thing a rich miller could do for a poor but growing village businesses.
    - jonway 11mo ago
      No ... its more like "I'm making so many GPUs and have so much money already. You don't have GPUs so how about I give you GPUs in exchange for partial ownership in your business so you don't have to put this capex on your books that affect your ability to raise other investments, trigger certain disclosures, or make your finances look underwater since the assets will likely bolster your own valuation." Feels gamble-y when the shovel maker is playing weird VC for the gold prospectors like this, but I get the appeal since Nvidia stands to lose everything if this stuff tanks anyhow and it further entrenches Nvidia's own position all while keeping the hype train steaming by moving units.

Then Nvidia is turning around and investing back in the AI companies so they can in turn buy Nvidia chips...

by cjonas 11mo ago

Then Nvidia is turning around and investing back in the AI companies so they can in turn buy Nvidia chips...

At least investing in companies that will buy Nvidia makes sense somewhat, even if it feels dodgy. What possible sense does it make for Nvidia to invest in a maker of telecom equipment (Nokia) with no public plan, and the value of the investment jumps 30% as soon as it’s announced? It’s not like call routing needs to be “AI enabled” or they’re putting Nvidia GPUs in their custom silicon. Feels like Nvidia has too much money and they know whatever they invest in will appreciate thanks to the “AI premium” that investors bestow.

Atreiden 11mo ago
Nokia had some of the best mobile hardware (and software!) in the game until they were bought by Microsoft and promptly killed. I've been patiently waiting for their resurgence. Building embedded/mobile devices is their forte, which is also coincidentally the hardware space where AI is most poised to shine. Nvidia made a move in the same direction when they tried to acquire ARM. That got antitrusted (fairly so) but investing in a now-decimated telecom company isn't likely to ruffle any feathers this way.
- wood_spirit 11mo ago
  (Nokia went from king to pauper in the year when the iPhone and then Android launched. They death spiralled and Elop was brought in a few years later to transition them to using Microsoft Windows mobile. However, windows mobile was as old and uncompetitive as Symbian so couldn’t compete. Was very obvious at the time although the boards seem to have been living in their dream worlds)
- dale_glass 11mo ago
  > I've been patiently waiting for their resurgence. Building embedded/mobile devices is their forte Wouldn't most of those people have gone elsewhere by now? If you're a mobile device superstar, why would you stick around at Nokia once the mobile device part of it crashed and burned? A company's just a legal structure, people change over time. And that was more than 10 years ago, and didn't they sell their mobile division to Microsoft?
- iberator 11mo ago
  nokia is live and well. It is tier 1 player in teleco hardware
nradov 11mo ago
Nokia has a public plan to build 6G network infrastructure. I'm not sure how realistic it is. https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-nokia-ai-telecommunications https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-nokia-ai-telecommu...
klipklop 11mo ago
There is a public plan (literal press releases) and it is to use Nvidia Grace chips in Nokia’s future RAN products. Seems to have cooling issues but seems to be a nice chip for the most part. Nvidia quietly in the background is getting more interested in the network side of things and are hiring accordingly. This is an area I don’t really think you have all the details to have an opinion on imo.

ailegalbeagle 11mo ago

Which is perfectly legal, correct?

ailegalbeagle 11mo ago
I'll answer my own comment, yes, it is legal. If there are any known issues indicating wrong doing, report it to the DOJ or FTC.

scotty79 11mo ago

Nvidia is basically allowing some of its clients to pay with partial ownership of their companies instead of with cash for the chips they want, because there's simply not enough cash in them for the lofty goals lots of people think are achievable.

jonway 11mo ago
God that sounds so crazy. Its giving me "sell our municipal water to Private Equity to buy a park, imagine the tax revenue!" vibes except its just diluting the shares. It feels like economics in the US is turning into FanDuel mobile gambling. Can we pass a law to disincentivize this garbage and make them start paying dividends again?
- tarsinge 11mo ago
  Isn’t the problem rooted in stock buybacks? Making it illegal could bring dividends and realign incentives.
  - jonway 11mo ago
    Please! Has Amazon ever paid out a dividend???
- scotty79 11mo ago
  It's more like "I'm making so much bread and have so much money already. You are making clothes but don't have enough money to buy bread from me to feed your workers so you can't grow. I think our village population will soon explode and there's going to be huge need for your clothing. So how about I give you money to buy bread from me in exchange for partial ownership of your business and its future profits?" It's a perfectly reasonable thing a rich miller could do for a poor but growing village businesses.
  - jonway 11mo ago
    No ... its more like "I'm making so many GPUs and have so much money already. You don't have GPUs so how about I give you GPUs in exchange for partial ownership in your business so you don't have to put this capex on your books that affect your ability to raise other investments, trigger certain disclosures, or make your finances look underwater since the assets will likely bolster your own valuation." Feels gamble-y when the shovel maker is playing weird VC for the gold prospectors like this, but I get the appeal since Nvidia stands to lose everything if this stuff tanks anyhow and it further entrenches Nvidia's own position all while keeping the hype train steaming by moving units.