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GrapheneOS isn't made by volunteers. They have a team of around 10 paid developers. They are a nonprofit foundation that receives donations and uses those to pa

GrapheneOS isn't made by volunteers. They have a team of around 10 paid developers. They are a nonprofit foundation that receives donations and uses those to pay developers, infrastructure etc. Ars Technica has update its article to rectify that mistake. It doesn't mention that anymore.

isodev 1y ago
It’s still a valid question. We have this huge corporation that’s doing so many things, constantly lobbying for policy, obscene revenue all while people are exploiting the apk out of their OS. In fact, looking at the news this week, the same question applies to Microsoft and Apple as well. Are they too big and distracted to care about security?
- saagarjha 1y ago
  No, it's just that the user will not put up with a system like GrapheneOS.
  - Sanzig 1y ago
    How so? Graphene is perfectly useable for a non-technical user. And once you install Play Store, it's almost indistinguishable UX-wise from any other Android phone.
    - udev4096 1y ago
      He's a fucking ignorant normie. He has never even tried to install GOS because if he did, he would know how almost identical the experience is with Android and there are no privileged google processes running on your phone which not only hog the resources but sends every single bit of information about your whole life
      - saagarjha 1y ago
        I have tried installing it, for your information
    - kube-system 1y ago
      “Install an OS on your phone” is nonsensical to 99.99% of users. You’re in a tech bubble.
      - Sanzig 1y ago
        I'm not talking about installation. I'm talking about using the OS once it's installed.
        kube-system 1y ago
        It’s a distinction without a difference when Graphene is installed by zero OEMs.
        Sanzig 1y ago
        I mean, I'm not sure what you expect the GrapheneOS project to do about that. I'm sure they'd love to provide hardware if they could, but they are a small nonprofit. They are currently working with an undisclosed OEM to to provide official support on an upcoming phone, which may lead to factory-installed options in the future if all goes well.
    - saagarjha 1y ago
      If you look around this thread you will find plenty of people explaining what doesn’t work for them. Of course the GrapheneOS people will explain that this is actually the fault of the banks or the apps or whatever and I would probably agree, but that still makes it hard to recommend to casual users.
  - udev4096 1y ago
    Put up what exactly? You think privacy and security is readily available to everyone who just desires so? If by "put up", you mean not even putting normal efforts, then sure. That user, along with you, fully deserves to get tracked, profiled and fingerprinted to the maximum extent of mass surveillance
    - saagarjha 1y ago
      > You think privacy and security is readily available to everyone who just desires so? No, I but I would like to make it so. I find your view that people “deserve” privacy to be incredibly depressing and antithetical to the spirit of user empowerment.
- graemep 1y ago
  > In fact, looking at the news this week, the same question applies to Microsoft and Apple as well. Are they too big and distracted to care about security? Yes, of course they are, but its more rational than just being distracted. If not caring does does not lose you a significant amount of revenue why should you care? The same applies to big players in the industry with regard to security and quality in general. In this case they have something to gain by keeping phones open to software used by government agencies.
  - isodev 1y ago
    > If not caring does does not lose you a significant amount of revenue why should you care? Sounds like it's time for heavy regulation. These corps are not "normal" businesses anymore, I think special (and stricter) rules should apply to them.
    - graemep 1y ago
      They are hard to regulate and I really doubt governments have either the willingness or the competence to do so effectively. The businesses are very heavily motivated to find ways around regulations, or manipulate them to to their advantage. Regulation is a very poor substitute for competition, and for well informed customers. Some of what I said in this comment is relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45780529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45780529
      - isodev 1y ago
        > Regulation is a very poor substitute for competition I've been following tech for my entire adult life. For more than 30 years now, competition or waiting for customers to become informed has never worked. The only tools we have against mega corps are the ones the EU is currently applying via DMA and similar. But it will take a global effort in order to permanently shift priorities towards "earning money while doing the right thing" (as opposed to "earning money" state of today). Corps like Google, Apple and friends are more similar to countries than businesses. The only problem is, international law and political pressure doesn't work on them as they're similar to countries governed by cartels.
- gf000 1y ago
  GrapheneOS is literally an OS made specifically with security in mind. They have countless contributions that were later merged into upstream improving the security of all the Android OSs, including hardened malloc and similar.
- usr1106 1y ago
  For many experienced software engineers Microsoft has had a reputation for poor software engineering when it comes to security, reliability, stability, scalability for 30 years. Google generally has the reputation of doing much better in those areas. Not sure what would be objective measures to compare.
  - hnuser123456 1y ago
    How about how easily spyware developers brag about being able to defeat the OS?
- chasil 1y ago
  Google has many, many government contracts. I believe that they would face enormous scrutiny in multiple contexts if they adopted Graphene as the next version of Android. Google also wants Play and GMS to have complete control of the device for their own selfish reasons. I do not see them willingly sandboxing their own control. So I can think of a few reasons.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Don't you remember when Satya Nadella was called in front of a congressional hearing to explain their numerous security breaches? So yeah.. Apple is a different story, but they are not invulnerable to cellebrite either
fph 1y ago
Are you affiliated with the project? I see all your posts are about Graphene OS. On HN it is customary to state it: you often see "author here" in discussions where the author joins. If you are part of the team I would suggest against using the third person ("they have a team..."). I know strcat is the lead Graphene OS developer, and it seems you and Andromxda are very knowledgeable about the project and very active on this thread.
- horseradish7k 1y ago
  it might be that guy who uses different accounts for different topics
  - subscribed 1y ago
    Of your favourite search engine is broken too, here's the link anyone can read: https://grapheneos.org/history/ https://grapheneos.org/history/
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- subscribed 1y ago
  It's literally ONE click away from the GrapheneOS main page, lol, the literacy levels gone through the floor. https://grapheneos.org/history/ https://grapheneos.org/history/ > GrapheneOS now has multiple full-time and part-time developers supported by donations and multiple companies collaborating with the project. This is beyond being just shockingly, willingly ignorant and this is out there re on the open, so in the spirit of your own response, I would suggest you admit your comment is a hit piece from their infamous competition.
  - fph 1y ago
    I am not debating what tranq_cassowary and the other two users are writing: it seems all correct (from what I can verify) and useful. I am just suggesting that they disclose their affiliation, if there is any, as a good transparency practice. I myself am not affiliated in any way with their "infamous competition", not even as a user of their software, so I have nothing to disclose. (Actually, I am a Graphene OS user.)

isodev 1y ago

It’s still a valid question. We have this huge corporation that’s doing so many things, constantly lobbying for policy, obscene revenue all while people are exploiting the apk out of their OS. In fact, looking at the news this week, the same question applies to Microsoft and Apple as well. Are they too big and distracted to care about security?

saagarjha 1y ago
No, it's just that the user will not put up with a system like GrapheneOS.
- Sanzig 1y ago
  How so? Graphene is perfectly useable for a non-technical user. And once you install Play Store, it's almost indistinguishable UX-wise from any other Android phone.
  - udev4096 1y ago
    He's a fucking ignorant normie. He has never even tried to install GOS because if he did, he would know how almost identical the experience is with Android and there are no privileged google processes running on your phone which not only hog the resources but sends every single bit of information about your whole life
    - saagarjha 1y ago
      I have tried installing it, for your information
  - kube-system 1y ago
    “Install an OS on your phone” is nonsensical to 99.99% of users. You’re in a tech bubble.
    - Sanzig 1y ago
      I'm not talking about installation. I'm talking about using the OS once it's installed.
      - kube-system 1y ago
        It’s a distinction without a difference when Graphene is installed by zero OEMs.
        Sanzig 1y ago
        I mean, I'm not sure what you expect the GrapheneOS project to do about that. I'm sure they'd love to provide hardware if they could, but they are a small nonprofit. They are currently working with an undisclosed OEM to to provide official support on an upcoming phone, which may lead to factory-installed options in the future if all goes well.
  - saagarjha 1y ago
    If you look around this thread you will find plenty of people explaining what doesn’t work for them. Of course the GrapheneOS people will explain that this is actually the fault of the banks or the apps or whatever and I would probably agree, but that still makes it hard to recommend to casual users.
- udev4096 1y ago
  Put up what exactly? You think privacy and security is readily available to everyone who just desires so? If by "put up", you mean not even putting normal efforts, then sure. That user, along with you, fully deserves to get tracked, profiled and fingerprinted to the maximum extent of mass surveillance
  - saagarjha 1y ago
    > You think privacy and security is readily available to everyone who just desires so? No, I but I would like to make it so. I find your view that people “deserve” privacy to be incredibly depressing and antithetical to the spirit of user empowerment.
graemep 1y ago
> In fact, looking at the news this week, the same question applies to Microsoft and Apple as well. Are they too big and distracted to care about security? Yes, of course they are, but its more rational than just being distracted. If not caring does does not lose you a significant amount of revenue why should you care? The same applies to big players in the industry with regard to security and quality in general. In this case they have something to gain by keeping phones open to software used by government agencies.
- isodev 1y ago
  > If not caring does does not lose you a significant amount of revenue why should you care? Sounds like it's time for heavy regulation. These corps are not "normal" businesses anymore, I think special (and stricter) rules should apply to them.
  - graemep 1y ago
    They are hard to regulate and I really doubt governments have either the willingness or the competence to do so effectively. The businesses are very heavily motivated to find ways around regulations, or manipulate them to to their advantage. Regulation is a very poor substitute for competition, and for well informed customers. Some of what I said in this comment is relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45780529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45780529
    - isodev 1y ago
      > Regulation is a very poor substitute for competition I've been following tech for my entire adult life. For more than 30 years now, competition or waiting for customers to become informed has never worked. The only tools we have against mega corps are the ones the EU is currently applying via DMA and similar. But it will take a global effort in order to permanently shift priorities towards "earning money while doing the right thing" (as opposed to "earning money" state of today). Corps like Google, Apple and friends are more similar to countries than businesses. The only problem is, international law and political pressure doesn't work on them as they're similar to countries governed by cartels.
gf000 1y ago
GrapheneOS is literally an OS made specifically with security in mind. They have countless contributions that were later merged into upstream improving the security of all the Android OSs, including hardened malloc and similar.
usr1106 1y ago
For many experienced software engineers Microsoft has had a reputation for poor software engineering when it comes to security, reliability, stability, scalability for 30 years. Google generally has the reputation of doing much better in those areas. Not sure what would be objective measures to compare.
- hnuser123456 1y ago
  How about how easily spyware developers brag about being able to defeat the OS?
chasil 1y ago
Google has many, many government contracts. I believe that they would face enormous scrutiny in multiple contexts if they adopted Graphene as the next version of Android. Google also wants Play and GMS to have complete control of the device for their own selfish reasons. I do not see them willingly sandboxing their own control. So I can think of a few reasons.
wkat4242 1y ago
Don't you remember when Satya Nadella was called in front of a congressional hearing to explain their numerous security breaches? So yeah.. Apple is a different story, but they are not invulnerable to cellebrite either

fph 1y ago

Are you affiliated with the project? I see all your posts are about Graphene OS. On HN it is customary to state it: you often see "author here" in discussions where the author joins. If you are part of the team I would suggest against using the third person ("they have a team..."). I know strcat is the lead Graphene OS developer, and it seems you and Andromxda are very knowledgeable about the project and very active on this thread.

horseradish7k 1y ago
it might be that guy who uses different accounts for different topics
- subscribed 1y ago
  Of your favourite search engine is broken too, here's the link anyone can read: https://grapheneos.org/history/ https://grapheneos.org/history/
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
subscribed 1y ago
It's literally ONE click away from the GrapheneOS main page, lol, the literacy levels gone through the floor. https://grapheneos.org/history/ https://grapheneos.org/history/ > GrapheneOS now has multiple full-time and part-time developers supported by donations and multiple companies collaborating with the project. This is beyond being just shockingly, willingly ignorant and this is out there re on the open, so in the spirit of your own response, I would suggest you admit your comment is a hit piece from their infamous competition.
- fph 1y ago
  I am not debating what tranq_cassowary and the other two users are writing: it seems all correct (from what I can verify) and useful. I am just suggesting that they disclose their affiliation, if there is any, as a good transparency practice. I myself am not affiliated in any way with their "infamous competition", not even as a user of their software, so I have nothing to disclose. (Actually, I am a Graphene OS user.)