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> (a) Double-down on investments in EVs (billions of USD!), even with a soft US market for EVs, hoping you might compete globally. > (b) Become a parochial, US

> (a) Double-down on investments in EVs (billions of USD!), even with a soft US market for EVs, hoping you might compete globally. > (b) Become a parochial, US-only, business hoping to squeeze what you can out of a gradually shrinking industry It's (c) invest in plug-in hybrids that work everywhere. US customers demand something that can do a road trip without stopping to charge? No problem, and on top of that it will get 40+ MPG. European customers paying high gas prices? No problem, it has a 150 km all-electric range so if you keep it charged you never have to put gas in it.

dalyons 1y ago
hybrids are option (b), a dead end parochial technology. Pure evs will strand that technology very quickly. BYD already has 1000v / 5min charge.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  Plug-in hybrids are EVs that have a gas engine in place of a larger battery. It means you're acquiring the knowhow and manufacturing capacity to build electric motors and batteries. If the market shifts you just take the engine out and put more batteries in its place, or offer that as a trim level in the places that want it.
  - dalyons 1y ago
    PHEVs are universally bad EVs. Terrible capacity, slow / low power charging infrastructure, minimal use of electric engines at higher speeds. They are essentially a lie to get green subsidies & tax breaks, achieving only ~19% less emissions than their gas equivalents in the real world [1] They don't have to be bad EVs, you could theoretically make one with a good EV powertrain, but then it would likely be more expensive than a pure EV. And battery prices drop substantially every year, and ranges are increasing fast. They're a dead end. (1) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      > Terrible capacity, slow / low power charging infrastructure These are the things they make irrelevant because they're hybrids. It doesn't matter if it has a short range or takes 8 hours to charge because you charge it once a day overnight or while you're at work, which is enough for 98% of the days because the range is still double the average commute, and then the other 2% of the time you put gas in it. > minimal use of electric engines at higher speeds There are hybrids that can do 85 MPH before starting the gasoline engine. > you could theoretically make one with a good EV powertrain, but then it would likely be more expensive than a pure EV You could make a hybrid that could do 200 MPH in electric mode and the main thing you would have to change is use a bigger electric motor, which isn't the expensive part. But nobody really needs it to do that. > And battery prices drop substantially every year Do they get substantially lighter though? Because that's the expensive part. A hybrid can have a battery which is 25% the size and then spend less than half the saved weight on the ICE powertrain. Then it's lighter, which not only increases the number of miles per kWh, it means you don't need such heavy duty propulsion, suspension, brakes, etc., which saves even more weight and cost.
      - dalyons 1y ago
        > These are the things they make irrelevant because they're hybrids. It doesn't matter if it has a short range or takes 8 hours to charge because you charge it once a day overnight or while you're at work, which is enough for 98% of the days because the range is still double the average commute, and then the other 2% of the time you put gas in it. Did you read the link? It absolutely does matter. The pathetic ev system in hybrids mean they save -19% of gas in the real world. Aka, basically nothing. Approximately no-one is doing 98/2 on electric. Semi-solid states with 500+ mile range are already shipping in china, the remaining niche of hybrids is dying fast.
        AnthonyMouse 1y ago
        There are two obvious reasons for that. One is they're testing the hybrids that can't do highway speeds in electric mode, but that's the easy one. Stop making those. All it needs is a bigger electric motor and electric motors aren't that expensive. The other is that it's a plug-in hybrid but that doesn't mean much unless you actually plug it in. A lot of people are presumably buying them without installing a charging port and then just running them on gas all the time. But that's not the car's fault. You make your choices and then the money comes out of your own wallet.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago
  In places with good charging infrastructure, absolutely. In large parts of the US, not so much.

dalyons 1y ago

hybrids are option (b), a dead end parochial technology. Pure evs will strand that technology very quickly. BYD already has 1000v / 5min charge.

AnthonyMouse 1y ago
Plug-in hybrids are EVs that have a gas engine in place of a larger battery. It means you're acquiring the knowhow and manufacturing capacity to build electric motors and batteries. If the market shifts you just take the engine out and put more batteries in its place, or offer that as a trim level in the places that want it.
- dalyons 1y ago
  PHEVs are universally bad EVs. Terrible capacity, slow / low power charging infrastructure, minimal use of electric engines at higher speeds. They are essentially a lie to get green subsidies & tax breaks, achieving only ~19% less emissions than their gas equivalents in the real world [1] They don't have to be bad EVs, you could theoretically make one with a good EV powertrain, but then it would likely be more expensive than a pure EV. And battery prices drop substantially every year, and ranges are increasing fast. They're a dead end. (1) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    > Terrible capacity, slow / low power charging infrastructure These are the things they make irrelevant because they're hybrids. It doesn't matter if it has a short range or takes 8 hours to charge because you charge it once a day overnight or while you're at work, which is enough for 98% of the days because the range is still double the average commute, and then the other 2% of the time you put gas in it. > minimal use of electric engines at higher speeds There are hybrids that can do 85 MPH before starting the gasoline engine. > you could theoretically make one with a good EV powertrain, but then it would likely be more expensive than a pure EV You could make a hybrid that could do 200 MPH in electric mode and the main thing you would have to change is use a bigger electric motor, which isn't the expensive part. But nobody really needs it to do that. > And battery prices drop substantially every year Do they get substantially lighter though? Because that's the expensive part. A hybrid can have a battery which is 25% the size and then spend less than half the saved weight on the ICE powertrain. Then it's lighter, which not only increases the number of miles per kWh, it means you don't need such heavy duty propulsion, suspension, brakes, etc., which saves even more weight and cost.
    - dalyons 1y ago
      > These are the things they make irrelevant because they're hybrids. It doesn't matter if it has a short range or takes 8 hours to charge because you charge it once a day overnight or while you're at work, which is enough for 98% of the days because the range is still double the average commute, and then the other 2% of the time you put gas in it. Did you read the link? It absolutely does matter. The pathetic ev system in hybrids mean they save -19% of gas in the real world. Aka, basically nothing. Approximately no-one is doing 98/2 on electric. Semi-solid states with 500+ mile range are already shipping in china, the remaining niche of hybrids is dying fast.
      - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
        There are two obvious reasons for that. One is they're testing the hybrids that can't do highway speeds in electric mode, but that's the easy one. Stop making those. All it needs is a bigger electric motor and electric motors aren't that expensive. The other is that it's a plug-in hybrid but that doesn't mean much unless you actually plug it in. A lot of people are presumably buying them without installing a charging port and then just running them on gas all the time. But that's not the car's fault. You make your choices and then the money comes out of your own wallet.
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
In places with good charging infrastructure, absolutely. In large parts of the US, not so much.