11 ms·

This is a deletion. - they're completely stopping all updates to v2; even image trace won't be coming to it. You might have paid for perpetual access to it 2 m

by nirava 11mo ago

This is a deletion. - they're completely stopping all updates to v2; even image trace won't be coming to it. You might have paid for perpetual access to it 2 months ago, but it has completely stopped. As the world moves on (new chips, new OS features, just general software movement) this will increasingly feel like a second-class experience. - the new "free" software is a sales funnel into the paid subscription, and will also increasingly have that "second-class" feeling as new pro-only things are added to it. it is also practically guaranteed to feed your work into AI unless you buy pro sometime in the next 5 years In short, something secure, top class, the "best the company offers" product doesn't exist anymore. What was once there isn't.

damnesian 11mo ago
> the new "free" software is a sales funnel into the paid subscription, and will also increasingly have that "second-class" feeling as new pro-only things are added to it There's a plague of this on the entire industry now. Free apps abound, none of them will do exactly what you need, all of them will point you to the shiny unfree thing that will.
- jonathanstrange 11mo ago
  The practice would be easier to tolerate if the unfree thing had reasonable pricing. Alas, it is always subscription-based and the monthly fee is crazy high, in the range of re-buying a traditional download product every four months. I understand that professional users might have more money to spend but it still seems to me that those companies overestimate what potential customers are willing to pay as running costs.
- netghost 11mo ago
  I mean 20+ years ago we called this shareware. If you get value out of the free part of a tool, great! If not, then you get to choose to pay for the rest or not. Personally I'm happy that it tends to be the feature set I can live without that costs money. Not always, but often enough.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Sharlin 11mo ago
    Fair, but shareware was pay-once, which many people find preferable to a subscription-chained model.
    - blackqueeriroh 11mo ago
      You don’t have to keep paying for a subscription. You can stop at any time and still have access to all the non-AI features.
      - tavavex 11mo ago
        Yes, that's the situation at launch. The fear that's expressed above is that the subscription model incentivizes pushing people towards it as hard as possible. It's the exact opposite of Serif's straightforward model from before. Get ready for most new features (including ones that are unrelated to AI) to become locked to the subscription model. When they think they're not getting enough out of Affinity, they may also start cutting core functionality to force people to subscribe. Maybe, a limit on how many documents you can edit at once, or a layer limit (for the photo part), or an object limit (for the vector/"designer" part). This is how all of these subscriptions go nowadays.
      - nobody9999 11mo ago
        >You don’t have to keep paying for a subscription. You can stop at any time and still have access to all the non-AI features And if Canva decides that "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further,"[0] what will you do then? Go and rent the Adobe subscription suite instead? [0] http://www.quickmeme.com/img/32/32b4229145de0a2c1171b9b5757f25dfaa1bbf7b9be0b687be4dd5aec76a34d6.jpg http://www.quickmeme.com/img/32/32b4229145de0a2c1171b9b5757f...
    - netghost 11mo ago
      That's a great distinction. There is a big difference between a one time payment and a recurring payment, especially if the company canceling the product or going out of business means you can no longer use the tool, and I honestly steer clear of those in most cases.
lysace 11mo ago
That sucks for that usecase, agreed. On the plus side, there is finally a free modern piece of software that matches 80s MacDraw and MacPaint on the Mac. (Keynote isn’t it.)
microtonal 11mo ago
I'm sad (buyer of both v1 and v2). Being a paid app as opposed to require a subscription was the main selling over the Adobe Suite. A lot of users migrated to Affinity for that reason. As the free version will get more and more crippled as they move to pushing subscriptions, why not switch back to Adobe? I hope somebody else will try to crack this market like affinity did a decade ago.
- Gigachad 11mo ago
  I’m kinda keen on this. A few months ago I was looking at making a one time magazine print, but I discovered there were essentially no affordable options. The affinity option was the cheapest one, but still unaffordable for a one time project. I don’t even mind paying a subscription but the adobe option requires you to get a minimum of 12 months.
- carlosjobim 11mo ago
  > As the free version will get more and more crippled as they move to pushing subscriptions, why not switch back to Adobe? Because this is just in your imagination?
ezfe 11mo ago
Isn't this EXACTLY what subscriptions fix, though? That you can stop paying if the product stops getting updates. Everyone wanted a one time license, you aren't allowed to complain when that one-time licensed product stops getting updates. Note: I own a license to V2 of the Serif suite.
- paulhebert 11mo ago
  I’d prefer to have them release a new version every X years and let me buy that for a fixed cost. (This is how Adobe used to work)
  - ezfe 11mo ago
    You can't have your cake (one time payments) and eat it too (software gets perpetual updates). Perpetual licenses with 1 year of updates is a good middle ground, but they have said that the v2 suite will get maintenance updates for some period of time so even that type of license would not have changed this conversation.
    - paulhebert 11mo ago
      Sure. I get that. My ideal scenario is that existing versions get security patches and critical bug fixes but you have to upgrade for new features. But I realize that’s less lucrative and not how modern software tends to work
    - zenware 11mo ago
      Except that you can, because every software company did this for decades… Want to upgrade to a new version of our product? That’s another one time fee for that version. If you squint, this looks a lot like a subscription model, but with extra steps. Why it’s different is because those extra steps actually matter. They matter to the people who aren’t subjected to subscription dark-patterns to keep them from unsubscribing for just a little bit longer. They matter to the product, development, and sales teams who know they actually have to produce and deliver something meaningful if they want repeat customers. The matter to the accounting teams on all sides of the transaction, in particular because subscription revenue or expenses can always be counted as “recurring” and this has implications on cash flow which itself can impact many things. The pitch has always been “we grow with you, this is a win-win”, implying that perpetual license fees are actually good for you to pay. Ostensibly because keeping your supplier in business keeps you in business, but in reality it was totally possible for a software supplier to go out of business and for their customers to continue operating without issue for 5, 10, even 15+ years, before even considering finding a replacement software. And despite the pitch seeming so sweet, the literature on why you want your software business to operate on a subscription model was always about gaining an advantage over your customers, however marginal it may be, and now the data has borne out that the advantage is stark.
odie5533 11mo ago
I just want to pay $50 and have a single version I can download that doesn't need to auto-update and that I can use as long as I want.
Computer0 11mo ago
I did pay for perpetual access to it 2 months ago! :) As a windows PC user I am hoping the compatibility issues wont effect me and I can enjoy the product offline.
- stOneskull 11mo ago
  i wonder if you get some type of compensation if you paid recently.
  - Gigachad 11mo ago
    A one time license never entitles you to ongoing updates.
    - carpo 11mo ago
      That's not true. I've paid for a one time license for software before and received updates until the next major release.
blackqueeriroh 11mo ago
> they're completely stopping all updates to v2; even image trace won't be coming to it. There’s as of yet no confirmation about this. There is a lot of speculation, but there has not been official confirmation.
- justinclift 11mo ago
  > they're completely stopping all updates to v2 The article itself says at least this bit. I didn't notice anything about a "trace" thing though, but I was just skimming.
  - nirava 11mo ago
    it says, "the new free version gets widely requested features like image trace" and "the v2 won't get updates anymore". I can't read it any way other than "throw your paid-for v2, download this fremium thing, make account: to get access to image trace which is the one thing everyone has requested ever since affinity was a thing" I could be wrong ofc, but this just looks like classic misdirection where they're pointing to the free thing but in reality it's not really free and just a distraction.
- dbmnt 11mo ago
  It's right there in the FAQ. "Your Affinity V2 license (via Serif) remains valid and Serif will continue to keep activation servers online. But please note that these apps won’t receive future updates."
jansan 11mo ago
On the bright side, i am still using Paintshop Pro v7.04 from 2001, so we may be able to use Affinity for another 20 years, too.
- trinix912 11mo ago
  Unless you're on Mac which many design folks are. PSP from '01 (if it existed for Mac) would likely mean running a pre-OS X version from 2 CPU architectures ago.
naikrovek 11mo ago
perpetual licenses give you access to the software you purchased perpetually. a perpetual license doesn't usually give you access to later versions of the software, only updates & fixes for the version you bought. you were lucky to get the updates that you got. that is not normal, and is not something that a perpetual license purchaser should expect to get.

by nirava 11mo ago

damnesian 11mo ago

> the new "free" software is a sales funnel into the paid subscription, and will also increasingly have that "second-class" feeling as new pro-only things are added to it There's a plague of this on the entire industry now. Free apps abound, none of them will do exactly what you need, all of them will point you to the shiny unfree thing that will.

jonathanstrange 11mo ago
The practice would be easier to tolerate if the unfree thing had reasonable pricing. Alas, it is always subscription-based and the monthly fee is crazy high, in the range of re-buying a traditional download product every four months. I understand that professional users might have more money to spend but it still seems to me that those companies overestimate what potential customers are willing to pay as running costs.
netghost 11mo ago
I mean 20+ years ago we called this shareware. If you get value out of the free part of a tool, great! If not, then you get to choose to pay for the rest or not. Personally I'm happy that it tends to be the feature set I can live without that costs money. Not always, but often enough.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- Sharlin 11mo ago
  Fair, but shareware was pay-once, which many people find preferable to a subscription-chained model.
  - blackqueeriroh 11mo ago
    You don’t have to keep paying for a subscription. You can stop at any time and still have access to all the non-AI features.
    - tavavex 11mo ago
      Yes, that's the situation at launch. The fear that's expressed above is that the subscription model incentivizes pushing people towards it as hard as possible. It's the exact opposite of Serif's straightforward model from before. Get ready for most new features (including ones that are unrelated to AI) to become locked to the subscription model. When they think they're not getting enough out of Affinity, they may also start cutting core functionality to force people to subscribe. Maybe, a limit on how many documents you can edit at once, or a layer limit (for the photo part), or an object limit (for the vector/"designer" part). This is how all of these subscriptions go nowadays.
    - nobody9999 11mo ago
      >You don’t have to keep paying for a subscription. You can stop at any time and still have access to all the non-AI features And if Canva decides that "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further,"[0] what will you do then? Go and rent the Adobe subscription suite instead? [0] http://www.quickmeme.com/img/32/32b4229145de0a2c1171b9b5757f25dfaa1bbf7b9be0b687be4dd5aec76a34d6.jpg http://www.quickmeme.com/img/32/32b4229145de0a2c1171b9b5757f...
  - netghost 11mo ago
    That's a great distinction. There is a big difference between a one time payment and a recurring payment, especially if the company canceling the product or going out of business means you can no longer use the tool, and I honestly steer clear of those in most cases.

lysace 11mo ago

That sucks for that usecase, agreed. On the plus side, there is finally a free modern piece of software that matches 80s MacDraw and MacPaint on the Mac. (Keynote isn’t it.)

microtonal 11mo ago

I'm sad (buyer of both v1 and v2). Being a paid app as opposed to require a subscription was the main selling over the Adobe Suite. A lot of users migrated to Affinity for that reason. As the free version will get more and more crippled as they move to pushing subscriptions, why not switch back to Adobe? I hope somebody else will try to crack this market like affinity did a decade ago.

Gigachad 11mo ago
I’m kinda keen on this. A few months ago I was looking at making a one time magazine print, but I discovered there were essentially no affordable options. The affinity option was the cheapest one, but still unaffordable for a one time project. I don’t even mind paying a subscription but the adobe option requires you to get a minimum of 12 months.
carlosjobim 11mo ago
> As the free version will get more and more crippled as they move to pushing subscriptions, why not switch back to Adobe? Because this is just in your imagination?

ezfe 11mo ago

Isn't this EXACTLY what subscriptions fix, though? That you can stop paying if the product stops getting updates. Everyone wanted a one time license, you aren't allowed to complain when that one-time licensed product stops getting updates. Note: I own a license to V2 of the Serif suite.

paulhebert 11mo ago
I’d prefer to have them release a new version every X years and let me buy that for a fixed cost. (This is how Adobe used to work)
- ezfe 11mo ago
  You can't have your cake (one time payments) and eat it too (software gets perpetual updates). Perpetual licenses with 1 year of updates is a good middle ground, but they have said that the v2 suite will get maintenance updates for some period of time so even that type of license would not have changed this conversation.
  - paulhebert 11mo ago
    Sure. I get that. My ideal scenario is that existing versions get security patches and critical bug fixes but you have to upgrade for new features. But I realize that’s less lucrative and not how modern software tends to work
  - zenware 11mo ago
    Except that you can, because every software company did this for decades… Want to upgrade to a new version of our product? That’s another one time fee for that version. If you squint, this looks a lot like a subscription model, but with extra steps. Why it’s different is because those extra steps actually matter. They matter to the people who aren’t subjected to subscription dark-patterns to keep them from unsubscribing for just a little bit longer. They matter to the product, development, and sales teams who know they actually have to produce and deliver something meaningful if they want repeat customers. The matter to the accounting teams on all sides of the transaction, in particular because subscription revenue or expenses can always be counted as “recurring” and this has implications on cash flow which itself can impact many things. The pitch has always been “we grow with you, this is a win-win”, implying that perpetual license fees are actually good for you to pay. Ostensibly because keeping your supplier in business keeps you in business, but in reality it was totally possible for a software supplier to go out of business and for their customers to continue operating without issue for 5, 10, even 15+ years, before even considering finding a replacement software. And despite the pitch seeming so sweet, the literature on why you want your software business to operate on a subscription model was always about gaining an advantage over your customers, however marginal it may be, and now the data has borne out that the advantage is stark.

odie5533 11mo ago

I just want to pay $50 and have a single version I can download that doesn't need to auto-update and that I can use as long as I want.

Computer0 11mo ago

I did pay for perpetual access to it 2 months ago! :) As a windows PC user I am hoping the compatibility issues wont effect me and I can enjoy the product offline.

stOneskull 11mo ago
i wonder if you get some type of compensation if you paid recently.
- Gigachad 11mo ago
  A one time license never entitles you to ongoing updates.
  - carpo 11mo ago
    That's not true. I've paid for a one time license for software before and received updates until the next major release.

blackqueeriroh 11mo ago

> they're completely stopping all updates to v2; even image trace won't be coming to it. There’s as of yet no confirmation about this. There is a lot of speculation, but there has not been official confirmation.

justinclift 11mo ago
> they're completely stopping all updates to v2 The article itself says at least this bit. I didn't notice anything about a "trace" thing though, but I was just skimming.
- nirava 11mo ago
  it says, "the new free version gets widely requested features like image trace" and "the v2 won't get updates anymore". I can't read it any way other than "throw your paid-for v2, download this fremium thing, make account: to get access to image trace which is the one thing everyone has requested ever since affinity was a thing" I could be wrong ofc, but this just looks like classic misdirection where they're pointing to the free thing but in reality it's not really free and just a distraction.
dbmnt 11mo ago
It's right there in the FAQ. "Your Affinity V2 license (via Serif) remains valid and Serif will continue to keep activation servers online. But please note that these apps won’t receive future updates."

jansan 11mo ago

On the bright side, i am still using Paintshop Pro v7.04 from 2001, so we may be able to use Affinity for another 20 years, too.

trinix912 11mo ago
Unless you're on Mac which many design folks are. PSP from '01 (if it existed for Mac) would likely mean running a pre-OS X version from 2 CPU architectures ago.

naikrovek 11mo ago

perpetual licenses give you access to the software you purchased perpetually. a perpetual license doesn't usually give you access to later versions of the software, only updates & fixes for the version you bought. you were lucky to get the updates that you got. that is not normal, and is not something that a perpetual license purchaser should expect to get.