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I think there is something deeper here: people have become scared of the unknown, therefore we need to hide things for them. But people don't have to be scared.

by kccqzy 1y ago

I think there is something deeper here: people have become scared of the unknown, therefore we need to hide things for them. But people don't have to be scared. In fact even for people who are using Handbrake comfortably, a lot of things Handbrake presents in its UI are probably unknown to them and can safely be ignored. The screenshot in the article shows that Handbrake analyzed the source video and reported it as 30 FPS, SDR, 8-bit 4:2:0, 1-1-1. I think less than a tenth of a percent of Handbrake users understand all of that. 30 FPS is reasonably understandable but 4:2:0 requires the user to understand chroma subsampling, a considerably more niche topic. And I have no idea what 1-1-1 is and I simply ignore it. My point is, when faced with unknown information and controls, why do people feel scared in the first place? Why can't they simply ignore the unknown and make sense of what they can understand? Is it because they worry that the part of the software they don't understand will damage their computer or delete all their files? Is it just the lack of computer literacy? I do not readily empathize with people who are scared of software, because my generation grows up tinkering with software. I'd like to understand why people would become scared of software in the first place.

bugsliker 1y ago
How do you gain the confidence that what you choose to ignore is safe to ignore? Computer damage is one potential consequence on the extreme end. On the conservative end, the software might just not work the way you want and you waste your time. It’s a mental model you have to develop. Even as a technical power user though, I want to reduce the risk of wasting my time, or even confront the possibility that I might waste my time, if I don’t have to.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  How do you know the software in the article will do what you want? For handbrake you can pick a preset and see what happens. Or don't even do that: when you open it it'll make you pick a video file, then you can just jam the green start button and see if it gives you what you need. Very little time spent.
  - bugsliker 1y ago
    i mean i don’t know that the green button does what i want either so what’s your point?
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      Right, you don't know if either program is the right thing just by looking at it. The reason you're uncertain isn't all those options handbrake shows. You have that uncertainty no matter what. You need the same confidence with or without options. So that problem, while real, isn't an argument against showing options. And as far as time goes, it only takes a few seconds in either scenario. You hit go, you see the progress bar is moving, you check your file a few minutes later.
      - bugsliker 1y ago
        if the UI is forcing me to look at these options before pressing Go, it is a signal that someone thought these were important to consider before i pressed Go. this is the gricean maxims of quantity and relation. the decision to ignore this signal is a learned behavior that you and i have, is all i’m saying
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        The average person doesn't even read error messages. They know how to ignore things and hit the button that goes forward just fine. If they choose not to try the program, that's different. They don't lack the skill. (A child might lack this skill but a child is curious enough to push on so it works out anyway.)
        bugsliker 1y ago
        I don’t really understand what you’re arguing anymore. Is the average person afraid of the unknown or are they capable of ignoring things? You seem comfortable with the idea that a child not having this learned skill. I don’t know why you don’t extend that empathy towards the inexperienced in general.
thadt 1y ago
Not scared, time limited. The world is a complicated place, and there is a veritable mountain of things a person could learn about nearly any subject. But sometimes I don't need or want to learn all those things - I just want to get one very specific task done. What I really appreciate is when an expert who has spent the time required to understand the nuances and tradeoffs can say "just do this." When it comes to technology 'simple' just means that someone else made a bunch of decisions for me. If I want or need to make those decisions myself then I need more knobs.
- kccqzy 1y ago
  In my comment above I specifically did not expect the user to learn and understand everything, just the ability to ignore it. Handbrake has good defaults and the user would be successful if the only thing they do is: open the file and the press the green button. And scared is the word used by the original author in the title. I want to understand that emotion. I don't need someone to tell me we can't learn everything.
8note 1y ago
its complexity. assuming binary flags, the amount of different ways the tool might operate is O(2^n) if the tool isnt doing what you want, thats a gigantic search space for fixing it. hiding options, and putting sane defaults makes n smaller and exponentially reduces the search space. people arent afraid of doing 2^n stuff, its just that we have a gut sense that its gonna take more time than its worth. im down to try 10-100 things, but if its gonna be 100 million option combinations i have to tinker with, thats just not worth it.

by kccqzy 1y ago

bugsliker 1y ago

How do you gain the confidence that what you choose to ignore is safe to ignore? Computer damage is one potential consequence on the extreme end. On the conservative end, the software might just not work the way you want and you waste your time. It’s a mental model you have to develop. Even as a technical power user though, I want to reduce the risk of wasting my time, or even confront the possibility that I might waste my time, if I don’t have to.

Dylan16807 1y ago
How do you know the software in the article will do what you want? For handbrake you can pick a preset and see what happens. Or don't even do that: when you open it it'll make you pick a video file, then you can just jam the green start button and see if it gives you what you need. Very little time spent.
- bugsliker 1y ago
  i mean i don’t know that the green button does what i want either so what’s your point?
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    Right, you don't know if either program is the right thing just by looking at it. The reason you're uncertain isn't all those options handbrake shows. You have that uncertainty no matter what. You need the same confidence with or without options. So that problem, while real, isn't an argument against showing options. And as far as time goes, it only takes a few seconds in either scenario. You hit go, you see the progress bar is moving, you check your file a few minutes later.
    - bugsliker 1y ago
      if the UI is forcing me to look at these options before pressing Go, it is a signal that someone thought these were important to consider before i pressed Go. this is the gricean maxims of quantity and relation. the decision to ignore this signal is a learned behavior that you and i have, is all i’m saying
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        The average person doesn't even read error messages. They know how to ignore things and hit the button that goes forward just fine. If they choose not to try the program, that's different. They don't lack the skill. (A child might lack this skill but a child is curious enough to push on so it works out anyway.)
        bugsliker 1y ago
        I don’t really understand what you’re arguing anymore. Is the average person afraid of the unknown or are they capable of ignoring things? You seem comfortable with the idea that a child not having this learned skill. I don’t know why you don’t extend that empathy towards the inexperienced in general.

thadt 1y ago

Not scared, time limited. The world is a complicated place, and there is a veritable mountain of things a person could learn about nearly any subject. But sometimes I don't need or want to learn all those things - I just want to get one very specific task done. What I really appreciate is when an expert who has spent the time required to understand the nuances and tradeoffs can say "just do this." When it comes to technology 'simple' just means that someone else made a bunch of decisions for me. If I want or need to make those decisions myself then I need more knobs.

kccqzy 1y ago
In my comment above I specifically did not expect the user to learn and understand everything, just the ability to ignore it. Handbrake has good defaults and the user would be successful if the only thing they do is: open the file and the press the green button. And scared is the word used by the original author in the title. I want to understand that emotion. I don't need someone to tell me we can't learn everything.

8note 1y ago

its complexity. assuming binary flags, the amount of different ways the tool might operate is O(2^n) if the tool isnt doing what you want, thats a gigantic search space for fixing it. hiding options, and putting sane defaults makes n smaller and exponentially reduces the search space. people arent afraid of doing 2^n stuff, its just that we have a gut sense that its gonna take more time than its worth. im down to try 10-100 things, but if its gonna be 100 million option combinations i have to tinker with, thats just not worth it.