6 ms·

Ask HN: Do you negotiate salary in this job market?

11 points by sawirricardo 11mo ago

mooreds 11mo ago
Depends on your financial situation, if you have a job, and how many offers you have. Always worth thinking about your alternative to any job offer.
toomuchtodo 11mo ago
mooreds' comment is the gist of it, resources below to help. They also wrote a nice post on batna: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/2839 https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/2839 HN Search: salary negotiation - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=salary%20negotiation&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat... https://www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/batna/ https://www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/batna/ HN Search: BATNA - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=BATNA&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
SMAAART 11mo ago
1. Always negotiate 2. Read this book: Never Split the Difference NOTE: Understand the difference between negotiations and bluffing.
- jasonthorsness 11mo ago
  Thanks for the book recommendation! Heard about it a few times now so I'll check it out.
- ratelimitsteve 11mo ago
  is that the one by the FBI hostage guy?
hl_maker 11mo ago
Always ask. Worst case, they say no. Best case, you compound that extra 5–10% for the rest of your career. You already got the job if you are negotiating salary, they wont take it away.
- JohnFen 11mo ago
  > You already got the job if you are negotiating salary, they wont take it away. Exactly this. In all my decades in the industry, both during up cycles and down cycles, I've never had anyone respond to negotiation by saying "never mind, the deal is off". The worst case is that they'll say "our offer is not subject to negotiations, take it or leave it."
  - johnnyanmac 11mo ago
    >Ive never had anyone respond to negotiation by saying "never mind, the deal is off". I had that happen during my very first negotiation. Unless I'm lead to believe "suddenly, funding changed. We have to cancel". It does happen.
- JustExAWS 11mo ago
  The rest of your career? When I want more money than a cost of living raise, I change jobs. Because of salary compression, you’re almost always going to be better off changing jobs.
  - johnnyanmac 11mo ago
    Are you finding it easy yo change jobs these days?
    - JustExAWS 11mo ago
      Last two times were October 2023 with three offers within two weeks after I got Amazoned and October of last year. One offer with two weeks and it was based on an internal recruiter where I work now who reached out to me right before I got laid off. Two of the three offers in 2023 were from my network. But honestly, it might be harder now. It’s more of shit show now then even last year. On the other hand, I am at point in life where I’m good with just cost of living raises as long as I stay remote and I don’t have to deal with too much BS.
      - 11mo ago
taylodl 11mo ago
Salary negotiation is dependent on supply and demand. If there's a high demand for your niche skill, and few people have that skill, then you can negotiate - you're a price maker. Otherwise, if the demand is low and the supply is high then you don't have much room to negotiate - you're a price taker. The problem is overgeneralization. Even in a "bad" job market there are always jobs where the demand is high and the supply is low. Those people are in good shape.
JohnFen 11mo ago
Always negotiate. The only effect the job market has on negotiations is it can lower the upper limit of what you can get out of it. But you should always negotiate, because if you don't, you'll almost always be getting less than you're worth regardless of market conditions.
- paulcole 11mo ago
  If you absolutely positively can’t afford to lose an offer then don’t negotiate. Take the offer. It doesn’t matter if you’re accepting “less than you’re worth” (a nonsense phrase if there ever was one) when you absolutely positively can’t afford to lose an offer.
ratelimitsteve 11mo ago
what you negotiate to should change w the market, but not whether you negotiate. employers know what the market is too and they always negotiate.
JustExAWS 11mo ago
I think people who try to negotiate and walk away from a job that doesn’t pay enough is almost always the wrong idea if you don’t have a job. Every month you don’t bring in income, you have to make 8.3% more just to make up for the month of lost income. Even though it didn’t come to it when I was looking for a job in late 2023 and again in late 2024, I was willing to take the first job or contract that came along *and keep interviewing*. It is especially easy when I am interviewg and working remotely. Honestly, most of my career and I’m now 10 jobs in, it’s been a tik tok between changing jobs to up skill and changing jobs for a pay bump or now just to stay remote and half to deal with as little bullshit as possible.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
atmosx 11mo ago
Always
johnnyanmac 11mo ago
You're meeting humans in interviews? That's already a big step up in this market. The core negotiations are the same as always: know your worth , and only do it if you're willing to walk away from the job. But it's much harder to get that ability these days for many. The only additional wisdom is to track layoff history these days. Getting an offer now may not mean you'll have that job in a year.
foobarbaz33 11mo ago
Negotiate downward. They offer 100k, you counter with 90k. they meet you in the middle at 95 then you counter 85 and stand firm there.
- iExploder 11mo ago
  This is the only true way to establish dominance.
- gethly 11mo ago
  The Amy Wong negotiation tactics :D
the_black_hand 11mo ago
Always negotiate no matter what. If you get an offer, it means the company WANTS you for something. Experience, skillset etc use that as leverage. Yeah, the market is tough but there's no harm in trying.
kypro 11mo ago
Always ask for more and always try to sell it as a win-win thing to keep you motivated and untempted by "less interesting roles" which pay more. Always ask how often the company does salary reviews. They'll not want to say "never" and anything they say you can note and use as a means to ask for a higher salary in the future. In general, in this market, I'd argue it's worth taking the job either way. 5-10% extra pay isn't worth another 2-3 months of unemployment. But that's a calculus you as an individual will need to make depending on your confidence of finding something else and your own financial security.
- ohman876 11mo ago
  > how often the company does salary reviews result of salary review can be no raise, so this might be not very useful > 5-10% extra pay isn't worth another 2-3 months of unemployment imho it's not worth the risk, unless your base makes that 10% big enough to outweight the risks :)

11 points by sawirricardo 11mo ago

Depends on your financial situation, if you have a job, and how many offers you have. Always worth thinking about your alternative to any job offer.

toomuchtodo 11mo ago

mooreds' comment is the gist of it, resources below to help. They also wrote a nice post on batna: https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/2839 https://www.mooreds.com/wordpress/archives/2839 HN Search: salary negotiation - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=salary%20negotiation&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat... https://www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/batna/ https://www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/batna/ HN Search: BATNA - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=BATNA&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

SMAAART 11mo ago

1. Always negotiate 2. Read this book: Never Split the Difference NOTE: Understand the difference between negotiations and bluffing.

jasonthorsness 11mo ago
Thanks for the book recommendation! Heard about it a few times now so I'll check it out.
ratelimitsteve 11mo ago
is that the one by the FBI hostage guy?

hl_maker 11mo ago

Always ask. Worst case, they say no. Best case, you compound that extra 5–10% for the rest of your career. You already got the job if you are negotiating salary, they wont take it away.

JohnFen 11mo ago
> You already got the job if you are negotiating salary, they wont take it away. Exactly this. In all my decades in the industry, both during up cycles and down cycles, I've never had anyone respond to negotiation by saying "never mind, the deal is off". The worst case is that they'll say "our offer is not subject to negotiations, take it or leave it."
- johnnyanmac 11mo ago
  >Ive never had anyone respond to negotiation by saying "never mind, the deal is off". I had that happen during my very first negotiation. Unless I'm lead to believe "suddenly, funding changed. We have to cancel". It does happen.
JustExAWS 11mo ago
The rest of your career? When I want more money than a cost of living raise, I change jobs. Because of salary compression, you’re almost always going to be better off changing jobs.
- johnnyanmac 11mo ago
  Are you finding it easy yo change jobs these days?
  - JustExAWS 11mo ago
    Last two times were October 2023 with three offers within two weeks after I got Amazoned and October of last year. One offer with two weeks and it was based on an internal recruiter where I work now who reached out to me right before I got laid off. Two of the three offers in 2023 were from my network. But honestly, it might be harder now. It’s more of shit show now then even last year. On the other hand, I am at point in life where I’m good with just cost of living raises as long as I stay remote and I don’t have to deal with too much BS.
    - 11mo ago

taylodl 11mo ago

Salary negotiation is dependent on supply and demand. If there's a high demand for your niche skill, and few people have that skill, then you can negotiate - you're a price maker. Otherwise, if the demand is low and the supply is high then you don't have much room to negotiate - you're a price taker. The problem is overgeneralization. Even in a "bad" job market there are always jobs where the demand is high and the supply is low. Those people are in good shape.

JohnFen 11mo ago

Always negotiate. The only effect the job market has on negotiations is it can lower the upper limit of what you can get out of it. But you should always negotiate, because if you don't, you'll almost always be getting less than you're worth regardless of market conditions.

paulcole 11mo ago
If you absolutely positively can’t afford to lose an offer then don’t negotiate. Take the offer. It doesn’t matter if you’re accepting “less than you’re worth” (a nonsense phrase if there ever was one) when you absolutely positively can’t afford to lose an offer.

ratelimitsteve 11mo ago

what you negotiate to should change w the market, but not whether you negotiate. employers know what the market is too and they always negotiate.

JustExAWS 11mo ago

I think people who try to negotiate and walk away from a job that doesn’t pay enough is almost always the wrong idea if you don’t have a job. Every month you don’t bring in income, you have to make 8.3% more just to make up for the month of lost income. Even though it didn’t come to it when I was looking for a job in late 2023 and again in late 2024, I was willing to take the first job or contract that came along *and keep interviewing*. It is especially easy when I am interviewg and working remotely. Honestly, most of my career and I’m now 10 jobs in, it’s been a tik tok between changing jobs to up skill and changing jobs for a pay bump or now just to stay remote and half to deal with as little bullshit as possible.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

atmosx 11mo ago

Always

johnnyanmac 11mo ago

You're meeting humans in interviews? That's already a big step up in this market. The core negotiations are the same as always: know your worth , and only do it if you're willing to walk away from the job. But it's much harder to get that ability these days for many. The only additional wisdom is to track layoff history these days. Getting an offer now may not mean you'll have that job in a year.

foobarbaz33 11mo ago

Negotiate downward. They offer 100k, you counter with 90k. they meet you in the middle at 95 then you counter 85 and stand firm there.

iExploder 11mo ago
This is the only true way to establish dominance.
gethly 11mo ago
The Amy Wong negotiation tactics :D

the_black_hand 11mo ago

Always negotiate no matter what. If you get an offer, it means the company WANTS you for something. Experience, skillset etc use that as leverage. Yeah, the market is tough but there's no harm in trying.

kypro 11mo ago

Always ask for more and always try to sell it as a win-win thing to keep you motivated and untempted by "less interesting roles" which pay more. Always ask how often the company does salary reviews. They'll not want to say "never" and anything they say you can note and use as a means to ask for a higher salary in the future. In general, in this market, I'd argue it's worth taking the job either way. 5-10% extra pay isn't worth another 2-3 months of unemployment. But that's a calculus you as an individual will need to make depending on your confidence of finding something else and your own financial security.

ohman876 11mo ago
> how often the company does salary reviews result of salary review can be no raise, so this might be not very useful > 5-10% extra pay isn't worth another 2-3 months of unemployment imho it's not worth the risk, unless your base makes that 10% big enough to outweight the risks :)