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There are people who don't invest? Do they just keep their retirement savings in cash? I imagine for most people either the government or their employer invests

There are people who don't invest? Do they just keep their retirement savings in cash? I imagine for most people either the government or their employer invests for them.

loloquwowndueo 1y ago
For most people it’s “what retirement savings?”
whoooboyy 1y ago
Incredible HN post. I'm hoping it's because you are from a country where people are generally well taken care of. Yes, there are people who don't invest. Where do they keep their retirement savings? 40-50% of Americans, at least, simply have no retirement savings! Most people in America aren't earning enough to put away a meaningful amount for retirement. It's going to be grim as boomers and millennials hit retirement age and have to keep working.
- koakuma-chan 1y ago
  And it doesn't occur to them that they will need money when they're old and can't work? Incredible.
  - micromacrofoot 1y ago
    it does but they don't know how to change it
  - pton_xd 1y ago
    They're worried about paying for their next trip to the dentist. Not working when they're old is not in the picture.
  - czottmann 1y ago
    I am very certain it does occur to them but they simply have no financial means to do anything about it. Which must be soul-crushing to them. Rest assured it usually isn't their choice.
    - koakuma-chan 1y ago
      > Rest assured it usually isn't their choice. People choose to marry, have kids, and buy a house.
      - czottmann 1y ago
        Your comments make me think you've never seen hardships in your life that weren't self-afflicted. Life can be cruel even if you've made great plans and took all the precautions you could think of. Illnesses, accidents, the lack of a social net because your country was set up that way, crime, the list goes on.
        koakuma-chan 1y ago
        Illnesses and accidents are exactly the things you need savings for, and aren't really relevant here because they don't prevent you from saving until and after they happen. The issue appears to be that 50% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and have no savings? I can't imagine how this could be anything other than them just spending money on shit they don't need. And yes, I am assuming you live in a developed country. I have Ukranian citizenship and right now the Ukrainian government is abducting men who are over 24 years old and sends them to death. If you live in a country like that, true, you shouldn't worry about investing because you don't even have basic human rights.
        bilekas 1y ago
        > The issue appears to be that 50% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and have no savings? I can't imagine how this could be anything other than them just spending money on shit they don't need. Or that there's no standard minimum wage, or income protection if something does go wrong. Student debt is crippling to people in itself never mind hospital events. That's so many people you should think "something must be wrong with the system" > Illnesses and accidents are exactly the things you need savings for It shouldn't be though, if you pay taxes, the government should be there for you in an emergency when it comes to health.
  - mfro 1y ago
    Wow, you are so out of touch
  - 91bananas 1y ago
    This has to be satire at this point.
  - whoooboyy 1y ago
    I.... they are dealing with systemic poverty. Being poor is expensive. They absolutely know they need to save, but if the choice is "starve to death today but save for retirement OR don't die, but don't save for retirement" most people are going to choose the latter.
    - koakuma-chan 1y ago
      I just checked and McDonald's pays $15 an hour, no? That's more than enough to not starve.
      - whoooboyy 1y ago
        Median rent value in Seattle is $2300/month if you are looking for a one bedroom, a little cheaper if you are looking at a studio. Minimum wage here is $21/hr. The first quartile for rent is $1600. Assuming you work full time, you are making $3360 a month, less taxes. That means that even if you get the bottom 25% of rents, over half your take home pay goes to rent. Then we need health care, food, taxes, transportation, clothing, etc. Not a lot of savings easily available there.
        koakuma-chan 1y ago
        I rent a room. But to be fair when I first came to Canada and was told by a local "of course you won't get to have a whole apartment all to yourself" my mind was blown away.
        whoooboyy 1y ago
        So people's work shouldn't result in private housing? That's an acceptable outcome? I'm not clear what your insinuation is here. People should live in communal bunks but also be saving for retirement?
      - InvisibleUp 1y ago
        McDonald’s will not let you work 40 hours a week, or any consistent schedule at all. You will show up when they tell you to and that’s that. Same with grocery stores or most retail jobs. Also you’re neglecting the cost of transportation (almost certainly a car, with gas and insurance), rent, and medical expenses.
- singleshot_ 1y ago
  More than half of Americans are net debtors, with a negative net worth.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > More than half of Americans are net debtors, with a negative net worth. Median household net worth is around $193k, not negative. Maybe this is true on an individual basis because there a bunch of, say, young debtors and elderly parents who have transferred their positive assets living in households with working adults with more positive wealth than the youngsters and elders combined have net debt, but...
micromacrofoot 1y ago
median emergency savings in the US is $500-600 1 in 5 have $0 50% have enough to cover 3 months of expenses
- sebastiennight 1y ago
  The math doesn't add up here? You're saying that $500-600 (the amount you claim 50% of people have saved up, if it's the median) covers 3 months of expenses?
  - throw-qqqqq 1y ago
    I mean no offense, but your understanding of a median seems flawed. The median is the number/point that separates the upper half from the lower half - it is not what 50% has. The math does add up. There is no contradiction in your parent’s post.
    - sebastiennight 1y ago
      I'm not sure I catch your explanation, so let's try with some simple numbers and you'll tell me where I'm wrong. I have a family of 10 people. These people have, respectively, $0 ; $0 ; $1 ; $5 ; $49 ; $51 ; $190 ; $8,000 ; $150,000 and $1,000,000. What's the median amount of savings in this group? And what amount would complete the sentence : "50% of people have ..."?
      - throw-qqqqq 1y ago
        The median of those ten numbers is 50. If the count of observations is even, it is usually the arithmetic mean of the two mid-points, so (49+51)/2 in this case. The median does not have to be in the finite set of values. Maybe Wikipedia can explain better than I can: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median
        sebastiennight 1y ago
pinkmuffinere 1y ago
Most of my family and extended American family doesn’t really invest. I think probably 10% of us “believe” in the stock market. The rest sometimes buy houses (which I encourage because it’s better than nothing), but otherwise are planning on social security, pensions, and lump-sum savings to cover their retirement
- koakuma-chan 1y ago
  > social security, pensions, and lump-sum savings Isn't that very little money?
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    While defined-benefit pensions are less and less common, they may not be small.
  - pinkmuffinere 1y ago
    In short, yes, but my family is very cheap, so it is doable with sacrifice. I think I'm middle class (or maybe upper-middle?) now, but I think I'm the first generation that can say that. And even I rented closets, garages, and spaces behind TV's until about 4 years ago, lol.
    - koakuma-chan 1y ago
      Congrats on making it!
- unmole 1y ago
  > Most of my family and extended American family doesn’t really invest. I think probably 10% of us “believe” in the stock market. ~62% of US adults own stocks: https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-own...
  - pinkmuffinere 1y ago
    Most of my family is farmers or missionaries, and I bet those groups are less likely than most to own stocks. Also, 'owning stocks' vs 'investing' feels different to me. My brother will go all in on tesla for one year, and then pull out and just sit there until he has another somewhat-random impulse. Likewise, my dad used to put all his money into some index funds for the 30 days leading up to Christmas, because 'the government always makes the stocks go up during the holidays, to keep everybody happy'. They count as 'owning stocks' (at least sometimes), but I don't feel they count as 'investing'.
linhns 1y ago
You’ll be surprised by how many people fear the term investment.

There are people who don't invest? Do they just keep their retirement savings in cash? I imagine for most people either the government or their employer invests for them.

loloquwowndueo 1y ago

For most people it’s “what retirement savings?”

whoooboyy 1y ago

Incredible HN post. I'm hoping it's because you are from a country where people are generally well taken care of. Yes, there are people who don't invest. Where do they keep their retirement savings? 40-50% of Americans, at least, simply have no retirement savings! Most people in America aren't earning enough to put away a meaningful amount for retirement. It's going to be grim as boomers and millennials hit retirement age and have to keep working.

koakuma-chan 1y ago
And it doesn't occur to them that they will need money when they're old and can't work? Incredible.
- micromacrofoot 1y ago
  it does but they don't know how to change it
- pton_xd 1y ago
  They're worried about paying for their next trip to the dentist. Not working when they're old is not in the picture.
- czottmann 1y ago
  I am very certain it does occur to them but they simply have no financial means to do anything about it. Which must be soul-crushing to them. Rest assured it usually isn't their choice.
  - koakuma-chan 1y ago
    > Rest assured it usually isn't their choice. People choose to marry, have kids, and buy a house.
    - czottmann 1y ago
      Your comments make me think you've never seen hardships in your life that weren't self-afflicted. Life can be cruel even if you've made great plans and took all the precautions you could think of. Illnesses, accidents, the lack of a social net because your country was set up that way, crime, the list goes on.
      - koakuma-chan 1y ago
        Illnesses and accidents are exactly the things you need savings for, and aren't really relevant here because they don't prevent you from saving until and after they happen. The issue appears to be that 50% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and have no savings? I can't imagine how this could be anything other than them just spending money on shit they don't need. And yes, I am assuming you live in a developed country. I have Ukranian citizenship and right now the Ukrainian government is abducting men who are over 24 years old and sends them to death. If you live in a country like that, true, you shouldn't worry about investing because you don't even have basic human rights.
        bilekas 1y ago
        > The issue appears to be that 50% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck and have no savings? I can't imagine how this could be anything other than them just spending money on shit they don't need. Or that there's no standard minimum wage, or income protection if something does go wrong. Student debt is crippling to people in itself never mind hospital events. That's so many people you should think "something must be wrong with the system" > Illnesses and accidents are exactly the things you need savings for It shouldn't be though, if you pay taxes, the government should be there for you in an emergency when it comes to health.
- mfro 1y ago
  Wow, you are so out of touch
- 91bananas 1y ago
  This has to be satire at this point.
- whoooboyy 1y ago
  I.... they are dealing with systemic poverty. Being poor is expensive. They absolutely know they need to save, but if the choice is "starve to death today but save for retirement OR don't die, but don't save for retirement" most people are going to choose the latter.
  - koakuma-chan 1y ago
    I just checked and McDonald's pays $15 an hour, no? That's more than enough to not starve.
    - whoooboyy 1y ago
      Median rent value in Seattle is $2300/month if you are looking for a one bedroom, a little cheaper if you are looking at a studio. Minimum wage here is $21/hr. The first quartile for rent is $1600. Assuming you work full time, you are making $3360 a month, less taxes. That means that even if you get the bottom 25% of rents, over half your take home pay goes to rent. Then we need health care, food, taxes, transportation, clothing, etc. Not a lot of savings easily available there.
      - koakuma-chan 1y ago
        I rent a room. But to be fair when I first came to Canada and was told by a local "of course you won't get to have a whole apartment all to yourself" my mind was blown away.
        whoooboyy 1y ago
        So people's work shouldn't result in private housing? That's an acceptable outcome? I'm not clear what your insinuation is here. People should live in communal bunks but also be saving for retirement?
    - InvisibleUp 1y ago
      McDonald’s will not let you work 40 hours a week, or any consistent schedule at all. You will show up when they tell you to and that’s that. Same with grocery stores or most retail jobs. Also you’re neglecting the cost of transportation (almost certainly a car, with gas and insurance), rent, and medical expenses.
singleshot_ 1y ago
More than half of Americans are net debtors, with a negative net worth.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > More than half of Americans are net debtors, with a negative net worth. Median household net worth is around $193k, not negative. Maybe this is true on an individual basis because there a bunch of, say, young debtors and elderly parents who have transferred their positive assets living in households with working adults with more positive wealth than the youngsters and elders combined have net debt, but...

micromacrofoot 1y ago

median emergency savings in the US is $500-600 1 in 5 have $0 50% have enough to cover 3 months of expenses

sebastiennight 1y ago
The math doesn't add up here? You're saying that $500-600 (the amount you claim 50% of people have saved up, if it's the median) covers 3 months of expenses?
- throw-qqqqq 1y ago
  I mean no offense, but your understanding of a median seems flawed. The median is the number/point that separates the upper half from the lower half - it is not what 50% has. The math does add up. There is no contradiction in your parent’s post.
  - sebastiennight 1y ago
    I'm not sure I catch your explanation, so let's try with some simple numbers and you'll tell me where I'm wrong. I have a family of 10 people. These people have, respectively, $0 ; $0 ; $1 ; $5 ; $49 ; $51 ; $190 ; $8,000 ; $150,000 and $1,000,000. What's the median amount of savings in this group? And what amount would complete the sentence : "50% of people have ..."?
    - throw-qqqqq 1y ago
      The median of those ten numbers is 50. If the count of observations is even, it is usually the arithmetic mean of the two mid-points, so (49+51)/2 in this case. The median does not have to be in the finite set of values. Maybe Wikipedia can explain better than I can: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median
      - sebastiennight 1y ago

pinkmuffinere 1y ago

Most of my family and extended American family doesn’t really invest. I think probably 10% of us “believe” in the stock market. The rest sometimes buy houses (which I encourage because it’s better than nothing), but otherwise are planning on social security, pensions, and lump-sum savings to cover their retirement

koakuma-chan 1y ago
> social security, pensions, and lump-sum savings Isn't that very little money?
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  While defined-benefit pensions are less and less common, they may not be small.
- pinkmuffinere 1y ago
  In short, yes, but my family is very cheap, so it is doable with sacrifice. I think I'm middle class (or maybe upper-middle?) now, but I think I'm the first generation that can say that. And even I rented closets, garages, and spaces behind TV's until about 4 years ago, lol.
  - koakuma-chan 1y ago
    Congrats on making it!
unmole 1y ago
> Most of my family and extended American family doesn’t really invest. I think probably 10% of us “believe” in the stock market. ~62% of US adults own stocks: https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-owns-stock.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/266807/percentage-americans-own...
- pinkmuffinere 1y ago
  Most of my family is farmers or missionaries, and I bet those groups are less likely than most to own stocks. Also, 'owning stocks' vs 'investing' feels different to me. My brother will go all in on tesla for one year, and then pull out and just sit there until he has another somewhat-random impulse. Likewise, my dad used to put all his money into some index funds for the 30 days leading up to Christmas, because 'the government always makes the stocks go up during the holidays, to keep everybody happy'. They count as 'owning stocks' (at least sometimes), but I don't feel they count as 'investing'.

linhns 1y ago

You’ll be surprised by how many people fear the term investment.