4 ms·

I play games like Gloomhaven and TI4. Not sure how this product would simplify anything. Far too small for any of the more complex board games. I guess I could

I play games like Gloomhaven and TI4. Not sure how this product would simplify anything. Far too small for any of the more complex board games. I guess I could scroll around but then what does physical piece detection give me? Then it’s $500USD. My game group and myself got Gloomhaven from Epic for free and played through the campaign together. BGA subscription is cheap. So many games have online implementations that are free. And I can buy a lot of boardgames for $500. What’s the draw here?

0xDEAFBEAD 11mo ago
Maybe they need to work with the creators of Gloomhaven etc to design their next game specifically so it can be played on this tablet, to cut down on the need for bookkeeping.
- 2muchcoffeeman 11mo ago
  The main problem with games like Gloomhaven and TI4 isn’t the book keeping. It’s getting the people around a table at the same time. Need 6 players for TI4 and the same group multiple times for a campaign. Hence why I’ve been playing the digital versions online with my group.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 11mo ago
    That's fair, I do believe there are games where bookkeeping is a problem though.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 11mo ago
      You’re right. But it’s only a problem if you can play in the first place. Of course solving book keeping effectively can lead to more possible times to play since you don’t need as long. Online platforms like BGA solve both problems and are pretty cheap and constantly implement new games. And I can play with friends that have moved overseas! And if you have a regular group, you only need to pay one subscription. Could have an old fashioned LAN party for online boardgames for an order of magnitude less money.
  - mnky9800n 11mo ago
    That problem extends into a lot of spaces of adulthood.
sleepybrett 11mo ago
it does open up some possibility for mechanics that exploit the fact that the play area ("board") is almost infinitely mutable. But honestly concepts like this, mixing of physical and digital, have been tried to very little success in the gaming space for years. Out best success is wii-motion controls and rockband-era .. elaborate controllers. But there have been card games that utilized cameras to read the cards, skylanders, etc. Actually this is closest to some of the things that original run of microsoft surface tables could do. I played some backgammon on one with physical dice and disks. It was .. fine, but it was just backgammon, they were just showing off the object tracking features. The only thing you could do with the board was some fancy animated board themes. Anyways all of that stuff is largely abandoned. So I wish these guys luck.
- archi42 11mo ago
  Building diy multitouch tables has been possible for a long time now, given time, space and budget for that project. I fully agree that it ultimately boils down to software: Can I implement my favorite board game for my multitouch interface? Yes. Can I bring that game to the table faster by just buying a physical copy? Yes. I happen to have two 42" touch displays set aside for such a project - a unused backup unit destined for the living room for 200€, and damaged unit for dev work (for free). Since I bought them about 2 years ago, I also bought at least double that value of physical board games in retail, plus a Kickstarter board game. Go figure why. However, I did play the digital version of Root on one of them, and enjoyed it very much. I should get Dune, too. NB: I regularly see multitouch tables at trade shows. Nice eye catcher and useful to present some products or the multitude of services big companies offer.
  - sleepybrett 11mo ago
    mt tables are fine and dandy and exactly what friends have built. There are several solutions for augmenting consumer panels for multitouch. This product is a bit further than multitough though. The problem is that I see few reasons for playing boardgames, with friends, on them. You loose a lot of 'delight' factor. Physical pieces are very important to most people. I think if you asked two chess players if they would rather sit in a park and play in the sun with a physical set or play with a touchscreen inside, they would probably select the first. I have played many digital board games, especially during covid. It's harder for me to concentrate on the game, it's less delightful. However for solo experiences and some extremes (gloomhaven) I do prefer digital games. (I also learned root digitally so that I could hurry my understanding of each faction before I played it physically with players who had a few games under their belt, and I play a lot of solo dune imperium because i love that game more than my friends it seems) Can this product's support for physical pieces crack the 'delight in physicality' problem. Maybe. Like I said, I had some experience with this on the surface table like 15 years ago. I think, in my experience at least, that they only time I've wanted a digital table is for TTRPG play for very tactical tables it just keeps the game moving faster than drawing a battlemap to put minis on. There is a reason I first started seeing them during D&D 4th edition where the combat was so 'on grid'. I imagine as we try out 'Draw Steel' we may revisit that more heavily as it's combat system is very 4E aligned. The product is a concept that I want to work more than it, historically, has.
neogodless 11mo ago
I really think in-person Gloomhaven is a great use case, if it's handled well. Scene 0: Enter player count / difficulty / etc. Scene 1: Map. Press UI to pick a location / scenario Scene 2: Loads hex map and enemies, manages all NPC activity for you Players still use physical cards, and importantly, physical stands for their characters. Would be worth discussing if the screen handles modifier cards... for physical cards the names might be on screen, then the players select their actions (top or bottom) and define movement or action targets. Some animation and NPC health / reactions are handled by software. So there's a reduction in set up (hex maps, NPCs) and a reduction in managing NPC actions (which is why the PC versions are so appealing in the first place.) But instead of all players focusing on their own screen, they are still getting some face time and tactile board game play.

0xDEAFBEAD 11mo ago

Maybe they need to work with the creators of Gloomhaven etc to design their next game specifically so it can be played on this tablet, to cut down on the need for bookkeeping.

2muchcoffeeman 11mo ago
The main problem with games like Gloomhaven and TI4 isn’t the book keeping. It’s getting the people around a table at the same time. Need 6 players for TI4 and the same group multiple times for a campaign. Hence why I’ve been playing the digital versions online with my group.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 11mo ago
  That's fair, I do believe there are games where bookkeeping is a problem though.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 11mo ago
    You’re right. But it’s only a problem if you can play in the first place. Of course solving book keeping effectively can lead to more possible times to play since you don’t need as long. Online platforms like BGA solve both problems and are pretty cheap and constantly implement new games. And I can play with friends that have moved overseas! And if you have a regular group, you only need to pay one subscription. Could have an old fashioned LAN party for online boardgames for an order of magnitude less money.
- mnky9800n 11mo ago
  That problem extends into a lot of spaces of adulthood.

sleepybrett 11mo ago

it does open up some possibility for mechanics that exploit the fact that the play area ("board") is almost infinitely mutable. But honestly concepts like this, mixing of physical and digital, have been tried to very little success in the gaming space for years. Out best success is wii-motion controls and rockband-era .. elaborate controllers. But there have been card games that utilized cameras to read the cards, skylanders, etc. Actually this is closest to some of the things that original run of microsoft surface tables could do. I played some backgammon on one with physical dice and disks. It was .. fine, but it was just backgammon, they were just showing off the object tracking features. The only thing you could do with the board was some fancy animated board themes. Anyways all of that stuff is largely abandoned. So I wish these guys luck.

archi42 11mo ago
Building diy multitouch tables has been possible for a long time now, given time, space and budget for that project. I fully agree that it ultimately boils down to software: Can I implement my favorite board game for my multitouch interface? Yes. Can I bring that game to the table faster by just buying a physical copy? Yes. I happen to have two 42" touch displays set aside for such a project - a unused backup unit destined for the living room for 200€, and damaged unit for dev work (for free). Since I bought them about 2 years ago, I also bought at least double that value of physical board games in retail, plus a Kickstarter board game. Go figure why. However, I did play the digital version of Root on one of them, and enjoyed it very much. I should get Dune, too. NB: I regularly see multitouch tables at trade shows. Nice eye catcher and useful to present some products or the multitude of services big companies offer.
- sleepybrett 11mo ago
  mt tables are fine and dandy and exactly what friends have built. There are several solutions for augmenting consumer panels for multitouch. This product is a bit further than multitough though. The problem is that I see few reasons for playing boardgames, with friends, on them. You loose a lot of 'delight' factor. Physical pieces are very important to most people. I think if you asked two chess players if they would rather sit in a park and play in the sun with a physical set or play with a touchscreen inside, they would probably select the first. I have played many digital board games, especially during covid. It's harder for me to concentrate on the game, it's less delightful. However for solo experiences and some extremes (gloomhaven) I do prefer digital games. (I also learned root digitally so that I could hurry my understanding of each faction before I played it physically with players who had a few games under their belt, and I play a lot of solo dune imperium because i love that game more than my friends it seems) Can this product's support for physical pieces crack the 'delight in physicality' problem. Maybe. Like I said, I had some experience with this on the surface table like 15 years ago. I think, in my experience at least, that they only time I've wanted a digital table is for TTRPG play for very tactical tables it just keeps the game moving faster than drawing a battlemap to put minis on. There is a reason I first started seeing them during D&D 4th edition where the combat was so 'on grid'. I imagine as we try out 'Draw Steel' we may revisit that more heavily as it's combat system is very 4E aligned. The product is a concept that I want to work more than it, historically, has.

neogodless 11mo ago

I really think in-person Gloomhaven is a great use case, if it's handled well. Scene 0: Enter player count / difficulty / etc. Scene 1: Map. Press UI to pick a location / scenario Scene 2: Loads hex map and enemies, manages all NPC activity for you Players still use physical cards, and importantly, physical stands for their characters. Would be worth discussing if the screen handles modifier cards... for physical cards the names might be on screen, then the players select their actions (top or bottom) and define movement or action targets. Some animation and NPC health / reactions are handled by software. So there's a reduction in set up (hex maps, NPCs) and a reduction in managing NPC actions (which is why the PC versions are so appealing in the first place.) But instead of all players focusing on their own screen, they are still getting some face time and tactile board game play.