10 ms·

> So like these are less serious issues if you are paid an extra $1-200k/ year Ok but to be fair most people in the US aren't making "extra $1-200k / year" ove

> So like these are less serious issues if you are paid an extra $1-200k/ year Ok but to be fair most people in the US aren't making "extra $1-200k / year" over a person in Europe. They aren't even making $100k / year to begin with.

mothballed 1y ago
Almost 40% of the USA is on medicare, medicaid, or entitled to VA benefits or military healthcare. It's only a narrow majority that depends on unsubsidized private healthcare, and those people skew in the upper income levels.
- yieldcrv 1y ago
  And while European countries have various forms of nationalized welfare, their salaries are so low that they would be automatically eligible for the US' welfare too! our blocs aren't that different except in the US middle class and upper middle class
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- nosianu 1y ago
  So what about this? It is a question, not meant as a counter. Although I have to say the rosy picture some paint here about the high incomes is counter to anything I ever heard - and saw, although I left the US in the early 2000s, after having lived there for almost a decade (still mostly paid from Germany, never ready to make a complete move). "Medical Bankruptcies by Country 2025" https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-bankruptcies-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-b... "Healthcare Insights: How Medical Debt Is Crushing 100 Million Americans" https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/john-august-healthcare/healthcare-insights-how-medical-debt-crushing-100-million-americans https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/john-au... By the way, Europeans don't quite all have a "nationalized healthcare system". Germany, for example, has "Krankenkassen" but also private insurance, and the "Krankenkassen" are private organizations. We pay health insurance and get to choose the provider, those with higher incomes can switch to complete private insurance. We also have lots of our own problems and increasing costs because of immigration but more so aging population. However, I personally know several people who had severe illnesses for a long time, and their normal "Krankenkassen" insurance never made any problems. One person with plenty of money, whose wife was dying, even asked US medical experts if he should come to the US with her, and those US experts said he should stay where he is, the German univ3ersity hospital right next door had some of the leading therapies in the field. She lived five more years instead of dying after less than half a year with the standard therapy, every single expense paid for with the standard insurance, additional private insurance unnecessary. Similar with my stepfather, who had soooo many severe conditions, and yet every single item down to the special medical bed brought into our house so that he could finally die at home was paid without question. The problems are with more mundane expenses, e.g. glasses, or the dentist, where only some of the treatments are covered. The really expensive illnesses seem to be better covered than the more common and much simpler problems.
  - onli 1y ago
    Careful there, thats a rightwing propaganda point. Immigration into an aging society does not raise healthcare costs, it lowers it. See https://archive.is/XxfTH https://archive.is/XxfTH (and note that this is a NZZ article, a right-wing publication by now, so not slanted towards being immigration friendly).
    - nxor 1y ago
      Are people ever allowed to criticize migration?
      - bleepblap 1y ago
        Sure, but it helps to not misrepresent the facts while you do it
        nosianu 1y ago
        Misrepresenting??? The costs DID increase. I did not try to make a political statement, what happened here, anyway??? I have no idea what there is to defend - even if you assume they will all get high-paying jobs some ay, for the first few years costs will increase while they either learn the language, are not allowed to work (status pending), or get minimum wage jobs (food delivery and parcel services at least in my city now is dominated by immigrants). Even with your most positive outlook, initially there will be lots more people and the same system (number of doctors), and the numbers of payers increases slowly. I even wrote "but more so aging population", conveniently overlooked in this strange politicized discussion. I am NOT against immigration!!! Don't make stuff up people.
        onli 1y ago
        You are misreading this exchange. You just got a fact wrong, but thus repeated a lie that is planted often by nazis - and it's easy to get mislead. Anyway, you did not get criticized for an imagined stance on immigration, but those answers are to a comment I assume you missed, the one by nxor? You wrote, incorrectly: > We also have lots of our own problems and increasing costs because of immigration As the NZZ article explained, health care / Krankenkassen are the area where it is the clearest that immigration is an economic benefit. Look at statements like the section title "Krankenkassen profitieren", followed by "Ein grosser Profiteur der Zuwanderung sind dagegen wohl die Krankenkassen." and the ending paragraph of said section: > Laut dieser Analyse gab es in diesen sieben Jahren einen Wanderungssaldo aus dem Ausland in Höhe von 4,7 Millionen Menschen in das System der GKV. Für das Jahr 2019 ergab sich daraus eine Entlastung der GKV über etwa 8 Milliarden Euro (umgerechnet 0,6 Beitragssatzpunkte). Seit 2019 hätten sich die Rahmenbedingungen aber deutlich geändert, heisst es dazu von der TK. So the numbers we have do not support that part of your statements. And I'm not aware of newer numbers that say the contrary - the recent cost increase sees completely different reasons for example, as in https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/panorama/krankenkassen-steigende-beitraege-kosten-ursachen-warum-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/panorama/krankenk..., the "but more so aging population" part of your comment fits there.
- jkartchner 1y ago
  You believe the top 60% of the nation skew in the upper income levels? Median pay is $61k a year for the entire country. The top 1% skews to the upper income levels. The rest are charged $30 for a dose of aspirin and can't afford it.
  - nxor 1y ago
    People in the US can't afford aspirin? Where do you live? It's just not true
    - sumeno 1y ago
      They are referring to the price that hospitals charge for aspirin, which is massively inflated, not the off the shelf cost of aspirin
      - tptacek 1y ago
        Where in their comment do you see them referring to hospital care?
        GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
        i think in this case, if you're at all familiar with what US hospitals charge for the small stuff, it's a safe assumption that when someone says aspirin costs $30 a dose, they're not talking about buying it at a CVS. of many folks on hacker news dot com i trust you to bridge that gap instead of nitpicking!
        tptacek 1y ago
        That's an odd argument to make in this thread, because whatever the drivers of burdensome consumer health spending are, they're not overpriced hospital aspirin.
        GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
fukka42 1y ago
It's hilariously out of touch, but it's what you should expect from the HN bros. They live in a bubble. I'm from the eu and earn far less than these American techbros do, but far more than my American friends who work normal jobs. They work at the DMV, a supermarket, or general office work. You know, normal people. The vast majority.
- georgeecollins 1y ago
  I agree I am not in any way representative. But the forum is hacker news, not my day at WalMart.
- ilegitmadethisn 1y ago
  [dead]
- smaudet 1y ago
  Yeah, just because the US has 300 billionaires that does not make the median salary anywhere near six figures. In fact it's quite low, somehow people are expected to survive on several thousand a year, after the rent, utilities, transport costs are all paid. https://www.fool.com/money/research/average-us-income/ https://www.fool.com/money/research/average-us-income/ These are official stats, but unofficial employment puts the number lower: https://investorshangout.com/carlyle-group-unveils-alarming-job-market-trends-amid-shutdown-415466-/ https://investorshangout.com/carlyle-group-unveils-alarming-...
  - tptacek 1y ago
    It helps to understand the difference between the mean and the median.

mothballed 1y ago

Almost 40% of the USA is on medicare, medicaid, or entitled to VA benefits or military healthcare. It's only a narrow majority that depends on unsubsidized private healthcare, and those people skew in the upper income levels.

yieldcrv 1y ago
And while European countries have various forms of nationalized welfare, their salaries are so low that they would be automatically eligible for the US' welfare too! our blocs aren't that different except in the US middle class and upper middle class
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
nosianu 1y ago
So what about this? It is a question, not meant as a counter. Although I have to say the rosy picture some paint here about the high incomes is counter to anything I ever heard - and saw, although I left the US in the early 2000s, after having lived there for almost a decade (still mostly paid from Germany, never ready to make a complete move). "Medical Bankruptcies by Country 2025" https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-bankruptcies-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/medical-b... "Healthcare Insights: How Medical Debt Is Crushing 100 Million Americans" https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/john-august-healthcare/healthcare-insights-how-medical-debt-crushing-100-million-americans https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/scheinman-institute/blog/john-au... By the way, Europeans don't quite all have a "nationalized healthcare system". Germany, for example, has "Krankenkassen" but also private insurance, and the "Krankenkassen" are private organizations. We pay health insurance and get to choose the provider, those with higher incomes can switch to complete private insurance. We also have lots of our own problems and increasing costs because of immigration but more so aging population. However, I personally know several people who had severe illnesses for a long time, and their normal "Krankenkassen" insurance never made any problems. One person with plenty of money, whose wife was dying, even asked US medical experts if he should come to the US with her, and those US experts said he should stay where he is, the German univ3ersity hospital right next door had some of the leading therapies in the field. She lived five more years instead of dying after less than half a year with the standard therapy, every single expense paid for with the standard insurance, additional private insurance unnecessary. Similar with my stepfather, who had soooo many severe conditions, and yet every single item down to the special medical bed brought into our house so that he could finally die at home was paid without question. The problems are with more mundane expenses, e.g. glasses, or the dentist, where only some of the treatments are covered. The really expensive illnesses seem to be better covered than the more common and much simpler problems.
- onli 1y ago
  Careful there, thats a rightwing propaganda point. Immigration into an aging society does not raise healthcare costs, it lowers it. See https://archive.is/XxfTH https://archive.is/XxfTH (and note that this is a NZZ article, a right-wing publication by now, so not slanted towards being immigration friendly).
  - nxor 1y ago
    Are people ever allowed to criticize migration?
    - bleepblap 1y ago
      Sure, but it helps to not misrepresent the facts while you do it
      - nosianu 1y ago
        Misrepresenting??? The costs DID increase. I did not try to make a political statement, what happened here, anyway??? I have no idea what there is to defend - even if you assume they will all get high-paying jobs some ay, for the first few years costs will increase while they either learn the language, are not allowed to work (status pending), or get minimum wage jobs (food delivery and parcel services at least in my city now is dominated by immigrants). Even with your most positive outlook, initially there will be lots more people and the same system (number of doctors), and the numbers of payers increases slowly. I even wrote "but more so aging population", conveniently overlooked in this strange politicized discussion. I am NOT against immigration!!! Don't make stuff up people.
        onli 1y ago
        You are misreading this exchange. You just got a fact wrong, but thus repeated a lie that is planted often by nazis - and it's easy to get mislead. Anyway, you did not get criticized for an imagined stance on immigration, but those answers are to a comment I assume you missed, the one by nxor? You wrote, incorrectly: > We also have lots of our own problems and increasing costs because of immigration As the NZZ article explained, health care / Krankenkassen are the area where it is the clearest that immigration is an economic benefit. Look at statements like the section title "Krankenkassen profitieren", followed by "Ein grosser Profiteur der Zuwanderung sind dagegen wohl die Krankenkassen." and the ending paragraph of said section: > Laut dieser Analyse gab es in diesen sieben Jahren einen Wanderungssaldo aus dem Ausland in Höhe von 4,7 Millionen Menschen in das System der GKV. Für das Jahr 2019 ergab sich daraus eine Entlastung der GKV über etwa 8 Milliarden Euro (umgerechnet 0,6 Beitragssatzpunkte). Seit 2019 hätten sich die Rahmenbedingungen aber deutlich geändert, heisst es dazu von der TK. So the numbers we have do not support that part of your statements. And I'm not aware of newer numbers that say the contrary - the recent cost increase sees completely different reasons for example, as in https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/panorama/krankenkassen-steigende-beitraege-kosten-ursachen-warum-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/panorama/krankenk..., the "but more so aging population" part of your comment fits there.
jkartchner 1y ago
You believe the top 60% of the nation skew in the upper income levels? Median pay is $61k a year for the entire country. The top 1% skews to the upper income levels. The rest are charged $30 for a dose of aspirin and can't afford it.
- nxor 1y ago
  People in the US can't afford aspirin? Where do you live? It's just not true
  - sumeno 1y ago
    They are referring to the price that hospitals charge for aspirin, which is massively inflated, not the off the shelf cost of aspirin
    - tptacek 1y ago
      Where in their comment do you see them referring to hospital care?
      - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
        i think in this case, if you're at all familiar with what US hospitals charge for the small stuff, it's a safe assumption that when someone says aspirin costs $30 a dose, they're not talking about buying it at a CVS. of many folks on hacker news dot com i trust you to bridge that gap instead of nitpicking!
        tptacek 1y ago
        That's an odd argument to make in this thread, because whatever the drivers of burdensome consumer health spending are, they're not overpriced hospital aspirin.
        GuinansEyebrows 1y ago

fukka42 1y ago

It's hilariously out of touch, but it's what you should expect from the HN bros. They live in a bubble. I'm from the eu and earn far less than these American techbros do, but far more than my American friends who work normal jobs. They work at the DMV, a supermarket, or general office work. You know, normal people. The vast majority.

georgeecollins 1y ago
I agree I am not in any way representative. But the forum is hacker news, not my day at WalMart.
ilegitmadethisn 1y ago
[dead]
smaudet 1y ago
Yeah, just because the US has 300 billionaires that does not make the median salary anywhere near six figures. In fact it's quite low, somehow people are expected to survive on several thousand a year, after the rent, utilities, transport costs are all paid. https://www.fool.com/money/research/average-us-income/ https://www.fool.com/money/research/average-us-income/ These are official stats, but unofficial employment puts the number lower: https://investorshangout.com/carlyle-group-unveils-alarming-job-market-trends-amid-shutdown-415466-/ https://investorshangout.com/carlyle-group-unveils-alarming-...
- tptacek 1y ago
  It helps to understand the difference between the mean and the median.