6 ms·

I think eventually, car ownership will go down significantly, since companies managing fleets of electric cars can do it far more efficiently than private owner

by mahyarm 14y ago

I think eventually, car ownership will go down significantly, since companies managing fleets of electric cars can do it far more efficiently than private ownership of long range cars. Uber is faster than walking to the car you parked half a mile away. There's always 'free parking' for your large house party in the city. You can also create small cargo only cars for small deliveries like that laptop situation. It's far more efficient from an energy/vehicle cost/liability stand point. Amazon prime 'local' might just replace stores from a pure efficiency standpoint. The number of total cars neccesary will decrease and the large amount of real estate devoted to cars will decrease significantly. Car maintenance costs will decrease with predictable schedules, and economies of scale that come with fleets.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
nradov 14y ago
Car sharing only works well for urbanites without children living with them. The rest of us keep a lot of stuff in our cars: strollers, child seats, spare clothes, shopping bags, diapers, pens, ski racks, toys, first-aid kits, etc. Even with computer driven cars I'll still be willing to pay a lot to avoid the hassle of loading and unloading every day.
- aptwebapps 14y ago
  What if you kept all your car stuff in some sort of modular compartments that could be easily loaded and unloaded? At the moment there isn't much incentive to do so, but that might change with this scenario. What I'm getting at is while your argument seems sound, and may in fact prevail, when you change one piece of the puzzle sometimes other solutions become possible.
  - anamax 14y ago
    > What if you kept all your car stuff in some sort of modular compartments that could be easily loaded and unloaded? Where am I going to put these containers when I don't have a rental car? Lugging them back and forth to the house is not a practical option.
    - mseebach 14y ago
      Maybe your driveway is replaced by a compartment container. Maybe (certain kinds of) cars will be able to automatically load the compartments. Or maybe you're completely right.
      - mh- 14y ago
        Maybe your driveway is replaced by a compartment container. I propose we call this component the garage.
      - anamax 14y ago
        > Maybe your driveway is replaced by a compartment container. Lots of folks don't have driveways, garages, and so on. More to the point, they may not be at a "personal storage location" when they're dropping off the rental car.
        mseebach 14y ago
        s/(driveway|garage)/$WhateverSpaceYouCurrentlyParkYourCarInThatWillBeEmptyIfYouAreRentingInsteadOfOwning/
        anamax 14y ago
        I can't leave my stuff in the street, especially since it isn't the same location every time I park. In other words, there's not necessarily a dedicated space that will be empty if I'm renting instead of owning, let alone one that I control In fact, folks who don't have dedicated/owned spaces are probably the best audience for rentals. Moreover, even if I'm willing to take said stuff into my residence, I may need said stuff on my way to the drop-off.
        mseebach2 14y ago
        It's getting kinda pointless. I'm suggesting something that might happen in a future where self-driving cars have completely disrupted all of transportation. You're countering "there's no dedicated space" - well, just maybe, that can change? It's not even a full space, it's just a "dock" to load the containers. In fact, even today, people who don't have a dedicated space (even if that space shifts around a bit, ie. is a "pool" space on the street) can't own a car: Where would they leave it? People who are renters today already have to deal with not leaving stuff in the car, so this discussion doesn't apply to them. Long story short: Your original argument was that not owning your own car will not be be an option for you, because you leave a lot of stuff for your kids in your car. My argument is that, with a bit of fantasy, maybe this isn't an insurmountable obstacle. > I may need said stuff on my way to the drop-off. Why would you drive your self-driving vehicle to the drop-off?
  - mc32 14y ago
    One of the small but nagging issues which will need to be resolved is how to deal with "items left behind". When more people begin to use public cars for personal use/hire people will begin leaving phones, strollers, jackets, wallets in these vehicles. Unless the cars are to have omnidirectional cameras or electronic trackers to monitor everything, people are going to lose things. This is going to be a pain point. It might be just becoming aware -as people do in taxicabs but at least honest cabbies will return items as its in their interest to maintain good reputation --a stranger is only bound by altruism.
    - mahyarm 14y ago
      I think it will be similar to leaving your wallet,jacket,etc on the subway.
- konstruktor 14y ago
  It's one of the great cost distortions of private car ownership: Anybody who is parking a car in public, filled with surfboards and strollers or not, is actually storing private property (car and contents) on public space. And even worse, "regular" parking spots are often free, even though they minimize the number of cars that can be "stored" on a given surface area as opposed to garages. Thus, we incentivize wasting urban space that is inherently scarce. If this stays the same, using a more efficient, stackable, standardized cargo pod that is auto-loaded onto your self-driving rental car, will be more expensive for you because you now actually see the cost. This is one of the many hidden costs of driving that people will suddenly have to face with on demand automatic car rental.
sojacques 14y ago
There's something that I am genuinely wondering. Will car ownership really decrease? Where I used to live in 2003, in China, taxis were really cheap, and public transportation was functioning OK. Yet, after some economic boom, people started to buy more and more cars. It was very provable that cars were a negative in every possible way. More expensive, PITA to maintain, inconvenient to park, incompatible with drinking alcohol or being tired, but still, people preferred to own and drive their own cars! I know a self driving car is not exactly like a Taxi driver (or even like a private driver), but the parallel is close enough for me to wonder about the consequences.
- mseebach 14y ago
  I think there's another factor in play in a place like China. Many of these new car owners probably grew up with cars being an unattainable luxury - now, suddenly, they can actually just own one. I can't blame such people for jumping on the opportunity, practicality be damned.
- mahyarm 14y ago
  For the average chinese person, is it cheaper to use taxis & long range busses & subways to go everywhere, or a personal car? Will the taxis come out to your residential area, at any time? Your still paying for taxi labor on top of a car.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

by mahyarm 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

nradov 14y ago

Car sharing only works well for urbanites without children living with them. The rest of us keep a lot of stuff in our cars: strollers, child seats, spare clothes, shopping bags, diapers, pens, ski racks, toys, first-aid kits, etc. Even with computer driven cars I'll still be willing to pay a lot to avoid the hassle of loading and unloading every day.

aptwebapps 14y ago
What if you kept all your car stuff in some sort of modular compartments that could be easily loaded and unloaded? At the moment there isn't much incentive to do so, but that might change with this scenario. What I'm getting at is while your argument seems sound, and may in fact prevail, when you change one piece of the puzzle sometimes other solutions become possible.
- anamax 14y ago
  > What if you kept all your car stuff in some sort of modular compartments that could be easily loaded and unloaded? Where am I going to put these containers when I don't have a rental car? Lugging them back and forth to the house is not a practical option.
  - mseebach 14y ago
    Maybe your driveway is replaced by a compartment container. Maybe (certain kinds of) cars will be able to automatically load the compartments. Or maybe you're completely right.
    - mh- 14y ago
      Maybe your driveway is replaced by a compartment container. I propose we call this component the garage.
    - anamax 14y ago
      > Maybe your driveway is replaced by a compartment container. Lots of folks don't have driveways, garages, and so on. More to the point, they may not be at a "personal storage location" when they're dropping off the rental car.
      - mseebach 14y ago
        s/(driveway|garage)/$WhateverSpaceYouCurrentlyParkYourCarInThatWillBeEmptyIfYouAreRentingInsteadOfOwning/
        anamax 14y ago
        I can't leave my stuff in the street, especially since it isn't the same location every time I park. In other words, there's not necessarily a dedicated space that will be empty if I'm renting instead of owning, let alone one that I control In fact, folks who don't have dedicated/owned spaces are probably the best audience for rentals. Moreover, even if I'm willing to take said stuff into my residence, I may need said stuff on my way to the drop-off.
        mseebach2 14y ago
        It's getting kinda pointless. I'm suggesting something that might happen in a future where self-driving cars have completely disrupted all of transportation. You're countering "there's no dedicated space" - well, just maybe, that can change? It's not even a full space, it's just a "dock" to load the containers. In fact, even today, people who don't have a dedicated space (even if that space shifts around a bit, ie. is a "pool" space on the street) can't own a car: Where would they leave it? People who are renters today already have to deal with not leaving stuff in the car, so this discussion doesn't apply to them. Long story short: Your original argument was that not owning your own car will not be be an option for you, because you leave a lot of stuff for your kids in your car. My argument is that, with a bit of fantasy, maybe this isn't an insurmountable obstacle. > I may need said stuff on my way to the drop-off. Why would you drive your self-driving vehicle to the drop-off?
- mc32 14y ago
  One of the small but nagging issues which will need to be resolved is how to deal with "items left behind". When more people begin to use public cars for personal use/hire people will begin leaving phones, strollers, jackets, wallets in these vehicles. Unless the cars are to have omnidirectional cameras or electronic trackers to monitor everything, people are going to lose things. This is going to be a pain point. It might be just becoming aware -as people do in taxicabs but at least honest cabbies will return items as its in their interest to maintain good reputation --a stranger is only bound by altruism.
  - mahyarm 14y ago
    I think it will be similar to leaving your wallet,jacket,etc on the subway.
konstruktor 14y ago
It's one of the great cost distortions of private car ownership: Anybody who is parking a car in public, filled with surfboards and strollers or not, is actually storing private property (car and contents) on public space. And even worse, "regular" parking spots are often free, even though they minimize the number of cars that can be "stored" on a given surface area as opposed to garages. Thus, we incentivize wasting urban space that is inherently scarce. If this stays the same, using a more efficient, stackable, standardized cargo pod that is auto-loaded onto your self-driving rental car, will be more expensive for you because you now actually see the cost. This is one of the many hidden costs of driving that people will suddenly have to face with on demand automatic car rental.

sojacques 14y ago

There's something that I am genuinely wondering. Will car ownership really decrease? Where I used to live in 2003, in China, taxis were really cheap, and public transportation was functioning OK. Yet, after some economic boom, people started to buy more and more cars. It was very provable that cars were a negative in every possible way. More expensive, PITA to maintain, inconvenient to park, incompatible with drinking alcohol or being tired, but still, people preferred to own and drive their own cars! I know a self driving car is not exactly like a Taxi driver (or even like a private driver), but the parallel is close enough for me to wonder about the consequences.

mseebach 14y ago
I think there's another factor in play in a place like China. Many of these new car owners probably grew up with cars being an unattainable luxury - now, suddenly, they can actually just own one. I can't blame such people for jumping on the opportunity, practicality be damned.
mahyarm 14y ago
For the average chinese person, is it cheaper to use taxis & long range busses & subways to go everywhere, or a personal car? Will the taxis come out to your residential area, at any time? Your still paying for taxi labor on top of a car.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]