5 ms·

My impression of most locks now is that they're really just to stop something from being casually broken into or even just falling open by accident.

rolph 1y ago
you are adjacent to the concept that locks are an honest persons way of communicating to other honest people that an invitation is required.
bravoetch 1y ago
My dad's wisdom as he cut my bike lock off when I lost the key in middle school: "locks keep honest people out."
- MarsIronPI 1y ago
  Your dad sounds like a very wise man.
- TimTheTinker 1y ago
  I have a friend who says "gun control keeps law-abiding people unarmed."
  - smt88 1y ago
    Your friend should look at almost any other Western, developed nation for counterexamples
  - Grimblewald 1y ago
    Gun control gives cause for arresting any law breaking people. See how such parables go both ways? Point is, gun control has led to a reduction in gun crime in every country I know of. Thats hard evidence against your qippy one-liner.
    - TimTheTinker 1y ago
      > Point is, gun control has led to a reduction in gun crime in every country I know of. Thats hard evidence against your qippy one-liner. That's a tautology - of course it did. The real questions are - what percentage of violent crimes were committed with guns after after gun control, how much did overall violent crime decrease after gun control, and to what extent was gun control provably responsible for the reduction of violent crime (when statistically controlling for other factors that reduce violent crime)? The overall slope of the violent crime curve has been negative, but the value may have been more negative if it were not for gun control. Also, I think history will bear this out in the coming centuries -- totalitarianism and terrorism can flourish far better when citizens are unarmed.
      - Grimblewald 1y ago
        Youre missing an important detail - how many deaths / maimings per violent offense. If violent offences dont drop but those do, worth no? How about school shooters - will people no longer crash out and attack their classmates? No. We havent solved the underlying issue, however, such a crashout sans guns seems siginificantly more preferable to me. besides, the usa has proven that freedom to access guns doesnt protect you from dictatorships / authoritarian governments. That was the main stated constitutional reason for having that right. So the USA hasn't seen any benefits from free gun access ans has lost uncountbaly many lives to death and trauma. How is it still justified?
    - db48x 1y ago
      Crime had already been falling consistently for several hundred years throughout Europe when the first gun-licensing and gun-control laws were being passed in the Wiemar Republic. You don’t need control over weapons to reduce crime, you just reduce crime. Incidentally, a few years later a certain political party got their candidate elected Chancellor. He more or less immediately ordered the police to use the gun-licensing records to identify Jews who owned guns and had them arrested. It’s actually pretty hilarious, in a very dark way, to read some of the arrest reports. When Jews were ordered to surrender their weapons to the police, many of them brought the weapons to a police station as instructed. They politely stood in line while the officer at the desk wrote out arrest warrants for them one after the other. The crime? Carrying an unlicensed weapon. The location? The police station in such-and-such precinct. The witness? The officer at the desk. The prisoner? Turned over to the SS.
  - tenuousemphasis 1y ago
    I assume your friend never bothers to lock their door?
    - TimTheTinker 1y ago
      Locking doors makes legal follow-up easier: "The deceased - do you know if he broke and entered?" "Yes, your honor. I always lock my doors at night. Exhibit A is a video of him busting the door down after trying the doorknob."
  - president_zippy 1y ago
    Your friend sounds like a good guy. Hopefully you're with him when you're out in public, and some sicko goes postal or some bum with a drug addiction starts waving a knife at you.
    - TimTheTinker 1y ago
      I definitely feel safer when I'm around him :) He has very carefully rehearsed a lot of situations in his mind, and I'm confident he would only draw his weapon when actual lives are in imminent danger (like an active armed assailant situation).
      - president_zippy 1y ago
        I used to be a competitive marksman through JROTC, and the FUD around firearms is so overblown compared to the fear most people should have while driving their car or doing certain jobs. A chem lab staffed only by trained professionals is still a lot more dangerous than an indoor range in a red state. A firearm in Cletus' hands is a lot safer than a beaker of sulfuric acid in anybody's hands, let alone piranha solution. And all of that is nothing compared to the danger of being on a road with other cars, many of which are operated by people who simply do not give a f***.
        TimTheTinker 1y ago
        100% agree. But - firearms (combined with training and skill) carry far more risk asymmetry compared to cars, sulfuric acid beakers, or even explosives. I think that's why there's more fear around letting people carry them. The potential damage to personal risk ratio is higher with firearms. But the root public policy problem is the same no matter what the weapon is: violent criminals will harm people, others generally won't. So the most effective policies have to lean heavily on good police and DA behavior, to make sure violent criminals aren't able to keep harming people. Going after the weapons criminals use is effectively a red herring if known violent criminals are still generally at large. Any policy intended to reduce violent crime will fail insofar as cases continue to go unsolved, and police, DAs, and courts don't enforce the law when the identities of violent criminals are known.
- adonese 1y ago
  That's a really well put. We are expecting a son soon and as I was reading this read and your comment, I couldn't help but asking myself will I ever say anything that my son will remember for years. And how can I be prepared.
pdonis 1y ago
Or to make it clear that if someone does break the lock, they didn't have your permission to get at whatever it was protecting.
- taneq 1y ago
  Yep, it’s like those security screws, they’re not used to stop you opening the box, they’re used to prove that you knew you shouldn’t be opening the box.
  - db48x 1y ago
    Most of the time they’re just there to make you _think_ that you shouldn’t be opening the box. In the US the Magnusen–Moss Warranty Act of 1977 explicitly prohibits companies from voiding any warranty merely because the owner opened up the device, repaired it, or had it repaired.
MarkMarine 1y ago
I've watched LPL videos and practiced on regular locks, I can pick something that is about 10$ or less, but these expensive locks with good tolerances (Abus) or disc detainer cores (kryptonite locks,) no amount of practice and fiddling with the correct tools has ever opened one of these. I lack the skill or touch. I can hold a 18v grinder with a cutoff wheel just fine though, I lost the keys to one of those kryptonite locks on my bike and I was riding my bike again 30 seconds later.

rolph 1y ago

you are adjacent to the concept that locks are an honest persons way of communicating to other honest people that an invitation is required.

bravoetch 1y ago

My dad's wisdom as he cut my bike lock off when I lost the key in middle school: "locks keep honest people out."

MarsIronPI 1y ago
Your dad sounds like a very wise man.
TimTheTinker 1y ago
I have a friend who says "gun control keeps law-abiding people unarmed."
- smt88 1y ago
  Your friend should look at almost any other Western, developed nation for counterexamples
- Grimblewald 1y ago
  Gun control gives cause for arresting any law breaking people. See how such parables go both ways? Point is, gun control has led to a reduction in gun crime in every country I know of. Thats hard evidence against your qippy one-liner.
  - TimTheTinker 1y ago
    > Point is, gun control has led to a reduction in gun crime in every country I know of. Thats hard evidence against your qippy one-liner. That's a tautology - of course it did. The real questions are - what percentage of violent crimes were committed with guns after after gun control, how much did overall violent crime decrease after gun control, and to what extent was gun control provably responsible for the reduction of violent crime (when statistically controlling for other factors that reduce violent crime)? The overall slope of the violent crime curve has been negative, but the value may have been more negative if it were not for gun control. Also, I think history will bear this out in the coming centuries -- totalitarianism and terrorism can flourish far better when citizens are unarmed.
    - Grimblewald 1y ago
      Youre missing an important detail - how many deaths / maimings per violent offense. If violent offences dont drop but those do, worth no? How about school shooters - will people no longer crash out and attack their classmates? No. We havent solved the underlying issue, however, such a crashout sans guns seems siginificantly more preferable to me. besides, the usa has proven that freedom to access guns doesnt protect you from dictatorships / authoritarian governments. That was the main stated constitutional reason for having that right. So the USA hasn't seen any benefits from free gun access ans has lost uncountbaly many lives to death and trauma. How is it still justified?
  - db48x 1y ago
    Crime had already been falling consistently for several hundred years throughout Europe when the first gun-licensing and gun-control laws were being passed in the Wiemar Republic. You don’t need control over weapons to reduce crime, you just reduce crime. Incidentally, a few years later a certain political party got their candidate elected Chancellor. He more or less immediately ordered the police to use the gun-licensing records to identify Jews who owned guns and had them arrested. It’s actually pretty hilarious, in a very dark way, to read some of the arrest reports. When Jews were ordered to surrender their weapons to the police, many of them brought the weapons to a police station as instructed. They politely stood in line while the officer at the desk wrote out arrest warrants for them one after the other. The crime? Carrying an unlicensed weapon. The location? The police station in such-and-such precinct. The witness? The officer at the desk. The prisoner? Turned over to the SS.
- tenuousemphasis 1y ago
  I assume your friend never bothers to lock their door?
  - TimTheTinker 1y ago
    Locking doors makes legal follow-up easier: "The deceased - do you know if he broke and entered?" "Yes, your honor. I always lock my doors at night. Exhibit A is a video of him busting the door down after trying the doorknob."
- president_zippy 1y ago
  Your friend sounds like a good guy. Hopefully you're with him when you're out in public, and some sicko goes postal or some bum with a drug addiction starts waving a knife at you.
  - TimTheTinker 1y ago
    I definitely feel safer when I'm around him :) He has very carefully rehearsed a lot of situations in his mind, and I'm confident he would only draw his weapon when actual lives are in imminent danger (like an active armed assailant situation).
    - president_zippy 1y ago
      I used to be a competitive marksman through JROTC, and the FUD around firearms is so overblown compared to the fear most people should have while driving their car or doing certain jobs. A chem lab staffed only by trained professionals is still a lot more dangerous than an indoor range in a red state. A firearm in Cletus' hands is a lot safer than a beaker of sulfuric acid in anybody's hands, let alone piranha solution. And all of that is nothing compared to the danger of being on a road with other cars, many of which are operated by people who simply do not give a f***.
      - TimTheTinker 1y ago
        100% agree. But - firearms (combined with training and skill) carry far more risk asymmetry compared to cars, sulfuric acid beakers, or even explosives. I think that's why there's more fear around letting people carry them. The potential damage to personal risk ratio is higher with firearms. But the root public policy problem is the same no matter what the weapon is: violent criminals will harm people, others generally won't. So the most effective policies have to lean heavily on good police and DA behavior, to make sure violent criminals aren't able to keep harming people. Going after the weapons criminals use is effectively a red herring if known violent criminals are still generally at large. Any policy intended to reduce violent crime will fail insofar as cases continue to go unsolved, and police, DAs, and courts don't enforce the law when the identities of violent criminals are known.
adonese 1y ago
That's a really well put. We are expecting a son soon and as I was reading this read and your comment, I couldn't help but asking myself will I ever say anything that my son will remember for years. And how can I be prepared.

pdonis 1y ago

Or to make it clear that if someone does break the lock, they didn't have your permission to get at whatever it was protecting.

taneq 1y ago
Yep, it’s like those security screws, they’re not used to stop you opening the box, they’re used to prove that you knew you shouldn’t be opening the box.
- db48x 1y ago
  Most of the time they’re just there to make you _think_ that you shouldn’t be opening the box. In the US the Magnusen–Moss Warranty Act of 1977 explicitly prohibits companies from voiding any warranty merely because the owner opened up the device, repaired it, or had it repaired.

MarkMarine 1y ago

I've watched LPL videos and practiced on regular locks, I can pick something that is about 10$ or less, but these expensive locks with good tolerances (Abus) or disc detainer cores (kryptonite locks,) no amount of practice and fiddling with the correct tools has ever opened one of these. I lack the skill or touch. I can hold a 18v grinder with a cutoff wheel just fine though, I lost the keys to one of those kryptonite locks on my bike and I was riding my bike again 30 seconds later.