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Humans have one advantage over autonomous cars in ice: they can pull over and put on chains. Cars can’t do that (yet). (I’d love to see a serious winter vehicl

by amluto 1y ago

Humans have one advantage over autonomous cars in ice: they can pull over and put on chains. Cars can’t do that (yet). (I’d love to see a serious winter vehicle that can deploy traction devices by itself, perhaps while rolling at very low speed. Off the top of my head, it seems like it might be easier to put them on then to take them off.)

ghaff 1y ago
Outside of some specific areas, how many people do you think carry chains with them?
- tstrimple 1y ago
  It's pretty much limited to areas with both snow and lots of elevation changes like in the mountainous areas. Having lived most of my life in the midwest now, no one here uses chains except maybe some of the private snow plow operators driving their trucks around at 4AM. Most people won't use dedicated winter tires either. We tend to rock all seasons all year round. Ice and snow on mostly flat roads are just something you get used to dealing with.
  - ghaff 1y ago
    As someone who has lived in New England most of my adult life I've never owned either chains or dedicated snow tires. I do try to be relatively conservative in terms of driving in winter. But I haven't invested in special equipment.
- loeg 1y ago
  They're required for traveling over mountain passes in the winter where I live, so I have them. But I have 3PMSF-rated tires and those are what I'd rather use 99% of the time.
beaviskhan 1y ago
Automatic snow chains are a thing, often seen on emergency vehicles even outside of the normal snow band. Ex: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/what_are_these_chains_under_an_ambulance/ https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/wha... No idea if they're compatible with Jaguars or whatever Waymo is rolling these days, but my guess is that Waymo could make the economics work.
- rented_mule 1y ago
  All the school buses near where I live (Sierra Nevada mountains in California) have these - it's cool to watch them lower and start spinning. But chains aren't enough in some common situations around here that locals, including school bus drivers, know well. When we get a good size snow storm (multiple feet) and the sun comes out a day or two later, thick ice forms on the sections of road that the sun hits - snow melt runs across the road during the day and freezes at night, getting thicker and smoother each day. When that happens on our steeper inclines, chains on AWD/4WD vehicles are not enough to get up those inclines or to stop on the way down them. Locals know where those spots are and take other routes in those situations. It's hard for me to imagine autonomous vehicles having such local information in remote areas like this anytime soon.
nradov 1y ago
Chains are usually not the best option. Dedicated snow tires are better than chains for most light vehicles when there's snow and ice on the road. For fleet vehicles you would think they could install the proper tires at the depot based on the date or weather forecast.
- tzs 1y ago
  Chains shine for the case where there generally isn't snow and ice where you spend most of your time, or where you occasionally visit, but there is between those places. I actually had chains when I lived in the Los Angeles area, which is probably the last place most people would expect someone to have chains or snow tires. I occasionally had to take I-5 to Central California or the Bay Area in winter, and in a typical winter there are maybe 1-5 days where you aren't allowed through Tejon Pass on just ordinary tires. There are three cases, depending on the severity of the weather. From least to most severe the requirements are: • If you have snow tires on at least two drive wheels you don't need chains. Otherwise you need chains. • If you have a 4WD/AWD vehicle with snow tires on all wheels you don't need chains. Otherwise you need chains. • You need chains.

by amluto 1y ago

ghaff 1y ago

Outside of some specific areas, how many people do you think carry chains with them?

tstrimple 1y ago
It's pretty much limited to areas with both snow and lots of elevation changes like in the mountainous areas. Having lived most of my life in the midwest now, no one here uses chains except maybe some of the private snow plow operators driving their trucks around at 4AM. Most people won't use dedicated winter tires either. We tend to rock all seasons all year round. Ice and snow on mostly flat roads are just something you get used to dealing with.
- ghaff 1y ago
  As someone who has lived in New England most of my adult life I've never owned either chains or dedicated snow tires. I do try to be relatively conservative in terms of driving in winter. But I haven't invested in special equipment.
loeg 1y ago
They're required for traveling over mountain passes in the winter where I live, so I have them. But I have 3PMSF-rated tires and those are what I'd rather use 99% of the time.

beaviskhan 1y ago

Automatic snow chains are a thing, often seen on emergency vehicles even outside of the normal snow band. Ex: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/what_are_these_chains_under_an_ambulance/ https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/wha... No idea if they're compatible with Jaguars or whatever Waymo is rolling these days, but my guess is that Waymo could make the economics work.

rented_mule 1y ago
All the school buses near where I live (Sierra Nevada mountains in California) have these - it's cool to watch them lower and start spinning. But chains aren't enough in some common situations around here that locals, including school bus drivers, know well. When we get a good size snow storm (multiple feet) and the sun comes out a day or two later, thick ice forms on the sections of road that the sun hits - snow melt runs across the road during the day and freezes at night, getting thicker and smoother each day. When that happens on our steeper inclines, chains on AWD/4WD vehicles are not enough to get up those inclines or to stop on the way down them. Locals know where those spots are and take other routes in those situations. It's hard for me to imagine autonomous vehicles having such local information in remote areas like this anytime soon.

nradov 1y ago

Chains are usually not the best option. Dedicated snow tires are better than chains for most light vehicles when there's snow and ice on the road. For fleet vehicles you would think they could install the proper tires at the depot based on the date or weather forecast.

tzs 1y ago
Chains shine for the case where there generally isn't snow and ice where you spend most of your time, or where you occasionally visit, but there is between those places. I actually had chains when I lived in the Los Angeles area, which is probably the last place most people would expect someone to have chains or snow tires. I occasionally had to take I-5 to Central California or the Bay Area in winter, and in a typical winter there are maybe 1-5 days where you aren't allowed through Tejon Pass on just ordinary tires. There are three cases, depending on the severity of the weather. From least to most severe the requirements are: • If you have snow tires on at least two drive wheels you don't need chains. Otherwise you need chains. • If you have a 4WD/AWD vehicle with snow tires on all wheels you don't need chains. Otherwise you need chains. • You need chains.