5 ms·

i’m really curious at what point it decides that it shouldn’t be driving.

2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
Humans are horrible at this I wonder what the limit is. I've always thought that I can tailor my speed to conditions but not everyone on the road slows down.
- hangonhn 1y ago
  It's really interesting because that's something they definitely don't teach you when you first learn to drive. Growing up in Florida, I learned to pull over and turn on emergency blinkers if the rain gets bad enough. The reason I know to do this is because I saw other drivers do this on the highway and realized that's pretty wise. It's tempting to imagine that a younger version of me would have been smart enough to realize this on my own but I think most of us learn a lot by observing the behavior of others. Or maybe I would have learned eventually after a few close calls with skidding. Or maybe I would have never learned until it's too late. I wonder if the different responses to averse conditions you've observed is a function of the different experiences we've had as drivers. You might be a more experienced driver than some of those around you.
  - ghaff 1y ago
    And pulling off through a patch of heavy rain is one thing. There are a lot of issues with pulling off in heavy snow unless you can really navigate off the highway to a safe location. Sometimes there aren't great solutions.
  - candiddevmike 1y ago
    Hazard lights are almost never used by folks when driving, when you really should turn them on anytime the conditions are forcing you to not go the speed limit, IMO. The other lizard brains will see blinky lights and hopefully put down their phones so they don't rear end you.
    - ghaff 1y ago
      I would hope the other folks would recognize that conditions are such that you're slowing down rather than have a bunch of arbitrary blinking lights on the road.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      People mostly only turn on their hazards when they're a hazard to other traffic (which is the whole point, IMO) Even if you're the slow guy on the road your speed still probably doesn't warrant this hence why you mostly only see it when people are going a speed of zero.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - antisthenes 1y ago
    > The reason I know to do this is because I saw other drivers do this on the highway and realized that's pretty wise. It's tempting to imagine that a younger version of me would have been smart enough to realize this on my own but I think most of us learn a lot by observing the behavior of others. Did you ever hydroplane in a car, even ever so slightly? That experience teaches you to slow down or stop and wait for the rain to be over pretty quickly.
  - XenophileJKO 1y ago
    It's funny because when I lived in Texas, we just turn on windshield wipers on full blast, put the hazard lights on and drive around at 15mph. (This would have to be an epic downpour though.) The only time people stopped was when it was hailing.. and then they would hide under bridges if they could.
    - tonyedgecombe 1y ago
      I remember driving past Charles de Gaulle Airport when it rained so hard we couldn't see past the end of the bonnet (hood). Everybody just stopped until it passed.
- amluto 1y ago
  Humans have one advantage over autonomous cars in ice: they can pull over and put on chains. Cars can’t do that (yet). (I’d love to see a serious winter vehicle that can deploy traction devices by itself, perhaps while rolling at very low speed. Off the top of my head, it seems like it might be easier to put them on then to take them off.)
  - ghaff 1y ago
    Outside of some specific areas, how many people do you think carry chains with them?
    - tstrimple 1y ago
      It's pretty much limited to areas with both snow and lots of elevation changes like in the mountainous areas. Having lived most of my life in the midwest now, no one here uses chains except maybe some of the private snow plow operators driving their trucks around at 4AM. Most people won't use dedicated winter tires either. We tend to rock all seasons all year round. Ice and snow on mostly flat roads are just something you get used to dealing with.
      - ghaff 1y ago
        As someone who has lived in New England most of my adult life I've never owned either chains or dedicated snow tires. I do try to be relatively conservative in terms of driving in winter. But I haven't invested in special equipment.
    - loeg 1y ago
      They're required for traveling over mountain passes in the winter where I live, so I have them. But I have 3PMSF-rated tires and those are what I'd rather use 99% of the time.
  - beaviskhan 1y ago
    Automatic snow chains are a thing, often seen on emergency vehicles even outside of the normal snow band. Ex: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/what_are_these_chains_under_an_ambulance/ https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/wha... No idea if they're compatible with Jaguars or whatever Waymo is rolling these days, but my guess is that Waymo could make the economics work.
- rangestransform 1y ago
  The limit is much higher than human performance given enough low latency compute. [1] is probably the limit, the actual issue is being able to do that while also avoiding colliding with other road users. The challenges of state estimation and control should be the same. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MWib6bnnT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MWib6bnnT8
- potato3732842 1y ago
  I hate this sort of take. Humans aren't horrible, on average, they're about average. Your opinion is just a statement of "my judgement is decently far from the fat part of the bell curve" but dressed up in "and I know better" type snobbery.
url00 1y ago
Exactly. I picture a dystopia where the car refuses to attempt escape from a storm because of the liability factor.
- brookst 1y ago
  Sounds preferable to a dystopia where AI driven cars are getting into wrecks because they’re overconfident in their abilities.
  - chemotaxis 1y ago
    The thing about winter driving is that it's just inherently a crapshoot. Sometimes, on a nice morning commute, you hit black ice going downhill and that's that. It doesn't matter that you were going slow, you're still gonna slide and hit something. I doubt the tech will be immune to that. So it's up to how they manage the fallout from the crashes they end up getting into.
    - simulator5g 1y ago
      Crashing after hitting black ice on a hill is a skill issue. Its like skiing, or ice skating, you still have control even though the handling is very different.
      - loeg 1y ago
        It depends on the hill. Sometimes you should just avoid the hill. Winter tires also go a long way.
      - Zanfa 1y ago
        Only if you have studded winter tires that are in good condition. Throw in a sprinkling of powder and there's nothing even a professional WRC driver could do. Another personal favorite is driving on ice with a tiny layer of sun melted water so you can also hydroplane.
        1y ago
dingnuts 1y ago
when the remote operator watching five feeds notices it's doing something dangerous

Humans are horrible at this I wonder what the limit is. I've always thought that I can tailor my speed to conditions but not everyone on the road slows down.

hangonhn 1y ago
It's really interesting because that's something they definitely don't teach you when you first learn to drive. Growing up in Florida, I learned to pull over and turn on emergency blinkers if the rain gets bad enough. The reason I know to do this is because I saw other drivers do this on the highway and realized that's pretty wise. It's tempting to imagine that a younger version of me would have been smart enough to realize this on my own but I think most of us learn a lot by observing the behavior of others. Or maybe I would have learned eventually after a few close calls with skidding. Or maybe I would have never learned until it's too late. I wonder if the different responses to averse conditions you've observed is a function of the different experiences we've had as drivers. You might be a more experienced driver than some of those around you.
- ghaff 1y ago
  And pulling off through a patch of heavy rain is one thing. There are a lot of issues with pulling off in heavy snow unless you can really navigate off the highway to a safe location. Sometimes there aren't great solutions.
- candiddevmike 1y ago
  Hazard lights are almost never used by folks when driving, when you really should turn them on anytime the conditions are forcing you to not go the speed limit, IMO. The other lizard brains will see blinky lights and hopefully put down their phones so they don't rear end you.
  - ghaff 1y ago
    I would hope the other folks would recognize that conditions are such that you're slowing down rather than have a bunch of arbitrary blinking lights on the road.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    People mostly only turn on their hazards when they're a hazard to other traffic (which is the whole point, IMO) Even if you're the slow guy on the road your speed still probably doesn't warrant this hence why you mostly only see it when people are going a speed of zero.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- antisthenes 1y ago
  > The reason I know to do this is because I saw other drivers do this on the highway and realized that's pretty wise. It's tempting to imagine that a younger version of me would have been smart enough to realize this on my own but I think most of us learn a lot by observing the behavior of others. Did you ever hydroplane in a car, even ever so slightly? That experience teaches you to slow down or stop and wait for the rain to be over pretty quickly.
- XenophileJKO 1y ago
  It's funny because when I lived in Texas, we just turn on windshield wipers on full blast, put the hazard lights on and drive around at 15mph. (This would have to be an epic downpour though.) The only time people stopped was when it was hailing.. and then they would hide under bridges if they could.
  - tonyedgecombe 1y ago
    I remember driving past Charles de Gaulle Airport when it rained so hard we couldn't see past the end of the bonnet (hood). Everybody just stopped until it passed.
amluto 1y ago
Humans have one advantage over autonomous cars in ice: they can pull over and put on chains. Cars can’t do that (yet). (I’d love to see a serious winter vehicle that can deploy traction devices by itself, perhaps while rolling at very low speed. Off the top of my head, it seems like it might be easier to put them on then to take them off.)
- ghaff 1y ago
  Outside of some specific areas, how many people do you think carry chains with them?
  - tstrimple 1y ago
    It's pretty much limited to areas with both snow and lots of elevation changes like in the mountainous areas. Having lived most of my life in the midwest now, no one here uses chains except maybe some of the private snow plow operators driving their trucks around at 4AM. Most people won't use dedicated winter tires either. We tend to rock all seasons all year round. Ice and snow on mostly flat roads are just something you get used to dealing with.
    - ghaff 1y ago
      As someone who has lived in New England most of my adult life I've never owned either chains or dedicated snow tires. I do try to be relatively conservative in terms of driving in winter. But I haven't invested in special equipment.
  - loeg 1y ago
    They're required for traveling over mountain passes in the winter where I live, so I have them. But I have 3PMSF-rated tires and those are what I'd rather use 99% of the time.
- beaviskhan 1y ago
  Automatic snow chains are a thing, often seen on emergency vehicles even outside of the normal snow band. Ex: https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/what_are_these_chains_under_an_ambulance/ https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/yus43b/wha... No idea if they're compatible with Jaguars or whatever Waymo is rolling these days, but my guess is that Waymo could make the economics work.
rangestransform 1y ago
The limit is much higher than human performance given enough low latency compute. [1] is probably the limit, the actual issue is being able to do that while also avoiding colliding with other road users. The challenges of state estimation and control should be the same. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MWib6bnnT8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MWib6bnnT8
potato3732842 1y ago
I hate this sort of take. Humans aren't horrible, on average, they're about average. Your opinion is just a statement of "my judgement is decently far from the fat part of the bell curve" but dressed up in "and I know better" type snobbery.

url00 1y ago

Exactly. I picture a dystopia where the car refuses to attempt escape from a storm because of the liability factor.

brookst 1y ago
Sounds preferable to a dystopia where AI driven cars are getting into wrecks because they’re overconfident in their abilities.
- chemotaxis 1y ago
  The thing about winter driving is that it's just inherently a crapshoot. Sometimes, on a nice morning commute, you hit black ice going downhill and that's that. It doesn't matter that you were going slow, you're still gonna slide and hit something. I doubt the tech will be immune to that. So it's up to how they manage the fallout from the crashes they end up getting into.
  - simulator5g 1y ago
    Crashing after hitting black ice on a hill is a skill issue. Its like skiing, or ice skating, you still have control even though the handling is very different.
    - loeg 1y ago
      It depends on the hill. Sometimes you should just avoid the hill. Winter tires also go a long way.
    - Zanfa 1y ago
      Only if you have studded winter tires that are in good condition. Throw in a sprinkling of powder and there's nothing even a professional WRC driver could do. Another personal favorite is driving on ice with a tiny layer of sun melted water so you can also hydroplane.
      - 1y ago

dingnuts 1y ago

when the remote operator watching five feeds notices it's doing something dangerous