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You're telling yourself what you want to hear. I guarantee you these guys are dead serious, and they've recently gotten a huge flush of cash.

dpkirchner 1y ago
The grunts are surely dead serious, but the bosses? Nah. If they were they'd be sending execs to prison. Anything less is pointless if you truly want to solve the problem.
- clipsy 1y ago
  You're assuming that the thing they're "serious" about is ending illegal immigration.
  - blurbleblurble 1y ago
    The bosses are serious about making the US an authoritarian ethno state.
    - deaux 1y ago
      A MAGA state first and foremost. The hierarchy is "white MAGA > non-white MAGA > white silent > non-white silent > white anti-MAGA > non-white anti-MAGA". Will they eventually come for everyone but the first group? Very likely, but there's always a priority ordering. I'll leave it to the proper historians to decide how similar this is to the state they're using as their main inspiration.
  - naijaboiler 1y ago
    The thing they are series about is racism, and having power to terrorize anyone they deem “undesirable”, a group which may one day include you
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  "truly solve the problem" ???
  - wombatpm 1y ago
    I believe Stephen Miller want a final solution to the immigration problem.
    - blurbleblurble 1y ago
      Oh yes and he's not acting alone. The merry band of misanthropes have all but written out their intentions explicitly. And it doesn't appear just to be immigrants they wish this stuff on. People have been worrying about "ecofascism" well then why aren't you concerned about an administration whose policy is measles outbreaks for the misinformed of their constituency? Whose health minister is a rich environmental lawyer who just so happens to be a huge fan of letting disease rip?
  - dpkirchner 1y ago
    I should have said "truly solved their stated problem", or "truly achieve the results they claim they want".
jasonboyd 1y ago
I agree they are deadly serious, but to the parent commenter’s point, why wander the streets grabbing random people when they could go straight to the employers? They would have far more success targeting farms, construction sites, restaurant kitchens, etc. The answer is the business owners are their constituents. They cannot afford to piss them off. If they lose their support the wheels will fall off this farcical performance. I grew up in Florida, and I remember the sugar plantation “raids” they used to stage. They were a complete dog and pony show. They would announce them in advance so the plantations could hide most of their undocumented workers. Then they would round up just enough people for the photo op to prove they were being “tough on immigration.” This is the same thing but on a grander and more dangerous scale.
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  The employers are more often white and/or more politically aligned.
- fwip 1y ago
  They are showing up at workplaces and getting people. Here's one that happened near me last month: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/breakdown-ice-detains-workers-of-nutrition-bar-confectioners-in-cato-illegal-aliens-fulton-city-school-district-president-donald-trump-immigrations-customs-enforcement-cayuga-oswego-county-sheriff-police-non-citizens https://cnycentral.com/news/local/breakdown-ice-detains-work... - and there are more happening in other places.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  Not quite. You had a bunch of workers at Tyson Chicken and Hormel Foods... At Tyson, underage and other undocumented workers were complaining about OSHA type stuff... next thing, there's a raid, 900 workers rounded up. Awkward moment as many of them spoke about how Tyson knew they were undocumented, and even handed over the written instructions provided to them on how to fill out paperwork and stay under the radar if they were. "That is outside the scope of this investigation." Nothing ever happened. At Hormel, complaining about all sorts of strange diseases and health conditions, possibly from inhaling aerosolized pig brain all day long? Oh, look, another raid. "Won't someone rid me of these meddlesome workers?" Just a theory but it seems highly plausible in both these cases that the companies and ICE colluded... stage a big photo op, get rid of problematic undocumented workers and oh, hey, wouldn't you know, no plans to investigate the company? This is also your friendly reminder that visa overstays are a misdemeanor, but for an employer, assisting or knowingly hiring undocumented workers is a felony. Tough on crime, indeed.
johnnyanmac 1y ago
> I guarantee you these guys are dead serious Just because the grunts are dead serious doesn't mean the initiative is dead serious. Even then, serious doesn't equal competent. They are still trying to deport Abrego Garcia. Spending millions in legal fees and transport to deport a single man is not pratical in the slightest.
- esseph 1y ago
  It's not about practically, it's about enforcing will and punishing enemies, especially self-created ones.
  - johnnyanmac 1y ago
    Yes. The cruelty is the point. But that's of course not how they message it to their party. Turns out cruelty is very expensive to maintain, though. And we certainly do not have the economy to keep accommodating the narrative as real citizens starve and lose jobs. Something's going to break.
    - blurbleblurble 1y ago
      Listen I'm sure there are some who are in it only for the messaging. But you're in denial if you really think certain driven individuals in all three branches of the us government aren't dead ass serious about taking this stuff to misanthropic ends.
      - johnnyanmac 1y ago
        We seem to be misaligned on what "serious" is in this context. Perhaps "inefficient" is a better way to phrase it. They are not concenred with effective immigration reform. But they are dead serious about being as bigoted as possible before consequences hit down down the line. But their message isn't directly saying "spend 1 trillion dollars to be bigoted"
wombatpm 1y ago
They are serious now, but eventually Pournell’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy comes into play. Those who believe in the organization will take over from those who believe in the mission.

dpkirchner 1y ago

The grunts are surely dead serious, but the bosses? Nah. If they were they'd be sending execs to prison. Anything less is pointless if you truly want to solve the problem.

clipsy 1y ago
You're assuming that the thing they're "serious" about is ending illegal immigration.
- blurbleblurble 1y ago
  The bosses are serious about making the US an authoritarian ethno state.
  - deaux 1y ago
    A MAGA state first and foremost. The hierarchy is "white MAGA > non-white MAGA > white silent > non-white silent > white anti-MAGA > non-white anti-MAGA". Will they eventually come for everyone but the first group? Very likely, but there's always a priority ordering. I'll leave it to the proper historians to decide how similar this is to the state they're using as their main inspiration.
- naijaboiler 1y ago
  The thing they are series about is racism, and having power to terrorize anyone they deem “undesirable”, a group which may one day include you
blurbleblurble 1y ago
"truly solve the problem" ???
- wombatpm 1y ago
  I believe Stephen Miller want a final solution to the immigration problem.
  - blurbleblurble 1y ago
    Oh yes and he's not acting alone. The merry band of misanthropes have all but written out their intentions explicitly. And it doesn't appear just to be immigrants they wish this stuff on. People have been worrying about "ecofascism" well then why aren't you concerned about an administration whose policy is measles outbreaks for the misinformed of their constituency? Whose health minister is a rich environmental lawyer who just so happens to be a huge fan of letting disease rip?
- dpkirchner 1y ago
  I should have said "truly solved their stated problem", or "truly achieve the results they claim they want".

jasonboyd 1y ago

I agree they are deadly serious, but to the parent commenter’s point, why wander the streets grabbing random people when they could go straight to the employers? They would have far more success targeting farms, construction sites, restaurant kitchens, etc. The answer is the business owners are their constituents. They cannot afford to piss them off. If they lose their support the wheels will fall off this farcical performance. I grew up in Florida, and I remember the sugar plantation “raids” they used to stage. They were a complete dog and pony show. They would announce them in advance so the plantations could hide most of their undocumented workers. Then they would round up just enough people for the photo op to prove they were being “tough on immigration.” This is the same thing but on a grander and more dangerous scale.

blurbleblurble 1y ago
The employers are more often white and/or more politically aligned.
fwip 1y ago
They are showing up at workplaces and getting people. Here's one that happened near me last month: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/breakdown-ice-detains-workers-of-nutrition-bar-confectioners-in-cato-illegal-aliens-fulton-city-school-district-president-donald-trump-immigrations-customs-enforcement-cayuga-oswego-county-sheriff-police-non-citizens https://cnycentral.com/news/local/breakdown-ice-detains-work... - and there are more happening in other places.
FireBeyond 1y ago
Not quite. You had a bunch of workers at Tyson Chicken and Hormel Foods... At Tyson, underage and other undocumented workers were complaining about OSHA type stuff... next thing, there's a raid, 900 workers rounded up. Awkward moment as many of them spoke about how Tyson knew they were undocumented, and even handed over the written instructions provided to them on how to fill out paperwork and stay under the radar if they were. "That is outside the scope of this investigation." Nothing ever happened. At Hormel, complaining about all sorts of strange diseases and health conditions, possibly from inhaling aerosolized pig brain all day long? Oh, look, another raid. "Won't someone rid me of these meddlesome workers?" Just a theory but it seems highly plausible in both these cases that the companies and ICE colluded... stage a big photo op, get rid of problematic undocumented workers and oh, hey, wouldn't you know, no plans to investigate the company? This is also your friendly reminder that visa overstays are a misdemeanor, but for an employer, assisting or knowingly hiring undocumented workers is a felony. Tough on crime, indeed.

johnnyanmac 1y ago

> I guarantee you these guys are dead serious Just because the grunts are dead serious doesn't mean the initiative is dead serious. Even then, serious doesn't equal competent. They are still trying to deport Abrego Garcia. Spending millions in legal fees and transport to deport a single man is not pratical in the slightest.

esseph 1y ago
It's not about practically, it's about enforcing will and punishing enemies, especially self-created ones.
- johnnyanmac 1y ago
  Yes. The cruelty is the point. But that's of course not how they message it to their party. Turns out cruelty is very expensive to maintain, though. And we certainly do not have the economy to keep accommodating the narrative as real citizens starve and lose jobs. Something's going to break.
  - blurbleblurble 1y ago
    Listen I'm sure there are some who are in it only for the messaging. But you're in denial if you really think certain driven individuals in all three branches of the us government aren't dead ass serious about taking this stuff to misanthropic ends.
    - johnnyanmac 1y ago
      We seem to be misaligned on what "serious" is in this context. Perhaps "inefficient" is a better way to phrase it. They are not concenred with effective immigration reform. But they are dead serious about being as bigoted as possible before consequences hit down down the line. But their message isn't directly saying "spend 1 trillion dollars to be bigoted"

wombatpm 1y ago

They are serious now, but eventually Pournell’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy comes into play. Those who believe in the organization will take over from those who believe in the mission.