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And I am curious how many engineer years it requires to port code to cloud services and deal with multiple issues you cannot even debug due to not having root
by codedokode 11mo ago
And I am curious how many engineer years it requires to port code to cloud services and deal with multiple issues you cannot even debug due to not having root privileges in the cloud.
Without cloud, saving a file is as simple as "with open(...) as f: f.write(data)" + adding a record to DB. And no weird network issues to debug.
- rajamaka 11mo ago> as simple as "with open(...) as f: f.write(data)" Save where? With what redundancy? With what access policies? With what backup strategy? With what network topology? With what storage equipment and file system and HVAC system and... Without on-prem, saving a file is as simple as s3.put_object() !
- codedokode 11mo agoWith s3, you cannot use ls, grep and other tools. > Save where? With what redundancy? With what access policies? With what backup strategy? With what network topology? With what storage equipment and file system and HVAC system and... Wow that's a lot to learn before using s3... I wonder how much it costs in salaries. > With what network topology? You don't need to care about this when using SSDs/HDDs. > With what access policies? Whichever is defined in your code, no restrictions unlike in S3. No need to study complicated AWS documentation and navigate through multiple consoles (this also costs you salaries by the way). No risk of leaking files due to misconfigured cloud services. > With what backup strategy? Automatically backed up with rest of your server data, no need to spend time on this.
- coderintherye 11mo agoI mean you can easily mount the S3 bucket to the local filesystem (e.g. using s3fs-fuse) and then use standard command line tools such as ls and grep.
- codedokode 11mo agoIt's probably going to be dog slow. I dealt with HDDs where just iterating through all files and directories takes hours, and network storage is going to be even slower at this scale.
- hallman76 11mo agoI inherited an S3 bucket where hundreds of thousands of files were written to the bucket root. Every filename was just a uuid. ls might work after waiting to page though to get every file. To grep you would need to download 5 TB.
- rajamaka 11mo ago> You don't need to care about this when using SSDs/HDDs. You do need to care when you move beyond a single server in a closet that runs your database, webserver and storage. > No risk of leaking files due to misconfigured cloud services. One misconfigured .htaccess file for example, could result in leaking files.
- Nextgrid 11mo agoWith bare-metal machines you can go very far before needing to scale beyond one machine.
- AdieuToLogic 11mo ago>> No risk of leaking files due to misconfigured cloud services. > One misconfigured .htaccess file for example, could result in leaking files. I don't think you are making a compelling case here, since both scenarios result in an undesirable exposure. Unless your point is both cloud services and local file systems can be equally exploited?
- codedokode 11mo ago> One misconfigured .htaccess First, I hope nobody is using Apache anymore, second, you typically store files outside of web directory.
- pestaa 11mo agoWhy nobody should use Apache? I rediscovered it to be great in many use cases. And there's llms to help with the config syntax.
- codedokode 11mo agoPerformance not great compared to nginx.
- inlined 11mo agoIt sounds like you’re not at the scale where cloud storage is obviously useful. By the time you definitely need S3/GCS you have problems making sure files are accessible everywhere. “Grep” is a ludicrous proposition against large blob stores
- bcrosby95 11mo agoYou can't ever definitively answer most of those questions on someone else's cloud. You just take Amazons word for whatever number of nines they claim it has.
- rajamaka 11mo agoNot needing to ask the questions is the selling point.
- grebc 11mo agoBro were you off grid last week. Your questions equally apply to AWS, you just magically handwave away all those questions as if AWS/GCP/Azure outages aren’t a thing.
- patrick451 11mo agoUntil it goes down because because aws STILL hasn't made themselves completely multi-region or can't figure our their DNS.
- Rohansi 11mo agoI don't think any of those mattered for their use case. That's why they didn't actually need S3.
- AdieuToLogic 11mo ago>> Without cloud, saving a file is as simple as "with open(...) as f: f.write(data)" + adding a record to DB. > Save where? With what redundancy? With what access policies? With what backup strategy? With what network topology? With what storage equipment and file system and HVAC system and... Most of these concerns can be addressed with ZFS[0] provided by FreeBSD systems hosted in triple-A data centers. See also iSCSI[1]. 0 - https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/zfs/ https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/zfs/ 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISCSI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISCSI
- SXX 11mo agoExcept running ZFS on FreeBSD would certainly require dedicated devops person with very specific skillset that majority of people on market dont have.
- hinkley 11mo agoVariation on an old classic. Question: How do you save a small fortune in cloud savings? Answer: First start with a large fortune.
- RedShift1 11mo agoAh that is where logging and traceability comes in! But not to worry, the cloud has excellent tools for that! The fact that logging and tracing will become half your cloud cost, oh well let's just sweep that under the rug.
- beoberha 11mo agoA lot of reductive anti-cloud stuff gets posted here, but this might be the granddaddy of them all.
- mjr00 11mo ago> Without cloud, saving a file is as simple as "with open(...) as f: f.write(data)" + adding a record to DB. And no weird network issues to debug. There may be some additional features that S3 has over a direct filesystem write to a SSD in your closet. The people paying for cloud spend are paying for those features.