9 ms·

Tesla's "Mad Max" mode is now under federal scrutiny

84 points by asplake 1y ago

pavel_lishin 1y ago
> Mad Max Fellas, the "Torment Nexus" tweet was supposed to be a joke.
Centigonal 1y ago
Either it's overhyped marketing, or Tesla has automated aggressive A-hole driving. I don't like either option.
- vichle 1y ago
  In Sweden, Tesla is the new BMW. It attracts aggressive A-hole drivers, so no need to automate it.
  - paradox460 1y ago
    Soon enough Tesla will be omitting turn signals to save on manufacturing costs
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    Can you ship some over here? Seems like if I want to get through a light before it turns red I find myself betting on the lane with the work van or heavy truck in stack rather than the one with the Tesla somewhere in the mix. In any sane world it'd be the opposite.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    I think torque is what attracts (or provokes) aggressive drivers.
- ajross 1y ago
  Good grief. Can't it just be whimsy? Must everything be a conspiracy these days? They have a tunable threshold for when the car will attempt a lane change. Set it too high and it makes too many and annoys the occupants. Set it too low and it fails to choose the right lane and spends more time in traffic. That's all it is. They just named the low threshold case after a fun driving movie because joke. Is that really so hard to believe?
  - Centigonal 1y ago
    "Frunk" and the Telo's "monster tunnel" are whimsy. Playing DOOM on a parked Tesla is whimsy. Shipping a feature that implies the car will drive unsafely or illegally in an automated fashion -- from an automaker that has a history (see below) of shipping similar driver assist features with unsafe behavior and misleading or overly bombastic marketing -- that is irresponsibility, not whimsy. If it weren't directly governing driving behavior or if it didn't come from a company that keeps doing this, then maybe I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tesla-cars-traffic-laws-drive-human-rcna20028 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tesla-cars-traffic-la... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-traffic-violations/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-t... https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-risky-deaths-crashes-nhtsa-investigation/ https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-risky-deaths-cra... https://futurism.com/tesla-change-name-full-self-driving-china https://futurism.com/tesla-change-name-full-self-driving-chi... https://www.jalopnik.com/1878905/ncap-downgrades-tesla-safety-score-misleading-autopilot/ https://www.jalopnik.com/1878905/ncap-downgrades-tesla-safet... https://www.theverge.com/news/692639/tesla-robotaxi-mistake-wrong-lane-phantom-braking https://www.theverge.com/news/692639/tesla-robotaxi-mistake-...
    - ajross 1y ago
      Please don't Gish-Gallop on HN. None of those links are about AP tuning or "Mad Max" mode.
      - Centigonal 1y ago
        > from an automaker that has a history (see below) of shipping similar driver assist features Must Tesla's actions be judged in a vacuum devoid of past context?
- magnetowasright 1y ago
  It's both. It's not the first time. Tesla recalled 50,000 cars because they programmed them to illegally roll through stop signs at up to 5.6mph/9kph [0] [0] https://www.tesla.com/support/recall-rolling-stop-functionality https://www.tesla.com/support/recall-rolling-stop-functional...
ocdtrekkie 1y ago
This is one of those things where if we had a normal functioning regulatory environment, Elon Musk would be in jail long before he got this obvious. Having an "Autopilot" mode people get killed by because it doesn't actually drive the car should've been plenty.
- noir_lord 1y ago
  Agreed but we are through the looking glass at this point.
- monerozcash 1y ago
  There has to be some acceptable maximum rate at which your products can kill people, and Tesla's autopilot is probably below that rate.
  - barnabee 1y ago
    Thinks aren’t magically legal just as long they don’t kill “too many” people.
    - monerozcash 1y ago
      Things aren't magically illegal just because they sometimes kill people
      - barnabee 1y ago
        Driving dangerously is illegal in most places though, and the illegality isn’t tied to the fatality rate of your driving style.
  - gambiting 1y ago
    I keep using this as an example - the Therac mechines for radiotherapy undoubtedly saved lives. They also undoubtedly administered radiation treatment better, faster and more accurately than any manual operator could have done. And yet, they all got recalled when we realized they "sometimes" administer a lethal dose of radiation by mistake. Or do you think they should have continued operating? What was the "acceptable maximum rate at which your products can kill people" for them? Because I'd argue it's zero. And it should be zero for Teslas or any cars that have something called "autopilot".
hydrogen7800 1y ago
I find myself asking "how is this legal" several times a day lately. Why does "tech" get to stress-test long standing rules and norms? It's an attitude of "I dare you to regulate us". I'm remembering a comment on HN a week or so ago . To paraphrase: "thing, but from the internet".
- wasting_time 1y ago
  [dead]
- ricardobeat 1y ago
  The article says it “speeds” but provides no sources or evidence, you might want to take that with a grain of salt. Here’s a video of the new mode, it seems pretty normal, you wouldn’t bat an eye to a friend driving in the exact same way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8uIPsaF-yY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8uIPsaF-yY Not that I would trust it with my life at this point in time, but the claims do seem exaggerated.
  - tacitusarc 1y ago
    There is effectively 0 traffic to contend with in that video. I do not see how you could reasonably claim that video should alleviate fears about unsafe behavior.
    - ricardobeat 1y ago
      It does not seem to go over the speed limit, even on an empty road?
beefnugs 1y ago
Isn't it kind of dumb that only after something like this hits world wide distributed news does anyone investigate anything?
- lux-lux-lux 1y ago
  The feature was only available this month
- rsynnott 1y ago
  As far as I can see they rolled it out without any warning, and, well, presumably without asking the regulators.
johnisgood 1y ago
How could they think that this is a good idea? Baffling.
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  Influencers will post about it and that will resuscitate their brand. Somehow.
dimal 1y ago
“Move fast and break things” is taking on a very literal meaning.
cosmicgadget 1y ago
Does this mode comply with state traffic regulations like follow distance and lane change protocol?
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  Why would you expect it to? Tesla has had (still has?) settings that allow the user to define how much it is allowed to break the speed limit and whether it can run red lights.
  - CaptWillard 1y ago
    I read somewhere that if the user presses the accelerator all the way to the floor, a tesla will indeed go really fast. Won't anyone think of the children?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

84 points by asplake 1y ago

pavel_lishin 1y ago

> Mad Max Fellas, the "Torment Nexus" tweet was supposed to be a joke.

Centigonal 1y ago

Either it's overhyped marketing, or Tesla has automated aggressive A-hole driving. I don't like either option.

vichle 1y ago
In Sweden, Tesla is the new BMW. It attracts aggressive A-hole drivers, so no need to automate it.
- paradox460 1y ago
  Soon enough Tesla will be omitting turn signals to save on manufacturing costs
- potato3732842 1y ago
  Can you ship some over here? Seems like if I want to get through a light before it turns red I find myself betting on the lane with the work van or heavy truck in stack rather than the one with the Tesla somewhere in the mix. In any sane world it'd be the opposite.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  I think torque is what attracts (or provokes) aggressive drivers.
ajross 1y ago
Good grief. Can't it just be whimsy? Must everything be a conspiracy these days? They have a tunable threshold for when the car will attempt a lane change. Set it too high and it makes too many and annoys the occupants. Set it too low and it fails to choose the right lane and spends more time in traffic. That's all it is. They just named the low threshold case after a fun driving movie because joke. Is that really so hard to believe?
- Centigonal 1y ago
  "Frunk" and the Telo's "monster tunnel" are whimsy. Playing DOOM on a parked Tesla is whimsy. Shipping a feature that implies the car will drive unsafely or illegally in an automated fashion -- from an automaker that has a history (see below) of shipping similar driver assist features with unsafe behavior and misleading or overly bombastic marketing -- that is irresponsibility, not whimsy. If it weren't directly governing driving behavior or if it didn't come from a company that keeps doing this, then maybe I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tesla-cars-traffic-laws-drive-human-rcna20028 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tesla-cars-traffic-la... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-traffic-violations/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-t... https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-risky-deaths-crashes-nhtsa-investigation/ https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-risky-deaths-cra... https://futurism.com/tesla-change-name-full-self-driving-china https://futurism.com/tesla-change-name-full-self-driving-chi... https://www.jalopnik.com/1878905/ncap-downgrades-tesla-safety-score-misleading-autopilot/ https://www.jalopnik.com/1878905/ncap-downgrades-tesla-safet... https://www.theverge.com/news/692639/tesla-robotaxi-mistake-wrong-lane-phantom-braking https://www.theverge.com/news/692639/tesla-robotaxi-mistake-...
  - ajross 1y ago
    Please don't Gish-Gallop on HN. None of those links are about AP tuning or "Mad Max" mode.
    - Centigonal 1y ago
      > from an automaker that has a history (see below) of shipping similar driver assist features Must Tesla's actions be judged in a vacuum devoid of past context?
magnetowasright 1y ago
It's both. It's not the first time. Tesla recalled 50,000 cars because they programmed them to illegally roll through stop signs at up to 5.6mph/9kph [0] [0] https://www.tesla.com/support/recall-rolling-stop-functionality https://www.tesla.com/support/recall-rolling-stop-functional...

ocdtrekkie 1y ago

This is one of those things where if we had a normal functioning regulatory environment, Elon Musk would be in jail long before he got this obvious. Having an "Autopilot" mode people get killed by because it doesn't actually drive the car should've been plenty.

noir_lord 1y ago
Agreed but we are through the looking glass at this point.
monerozcash 1y ago
There has to be some acceptable maximum rate at which your products can kill people, and Tesla's autopilot is probably below that rate.
- barnabee 1y ago
  Thinks aren’t magically legal just as long they don’t kill “too many” people.
  - monerozcash 1y ago
    Things aren't magically illegal just because they sometimes kill people
    - barnabee 1y ago
      Driving dangerously is illegal in most places though, and the illegality isn’t tied to the fatality rate of your driving style.
- gambiting 1y ago
  I keep using this as an example - the Therac mechines for radiotherapy undoubtedly saved lives. They also undoubtedly administered radiation treatment better, faster and more accurately than any manual operator could have done. And yet, they all got recalled when we realized they "sometimes" administer a lethal dose of radiation by mistake. Or do you think they should have continued operating? What was the "acceptable maximum rate at which your products can kill people" for them? Because I'd argue it's zero. And it should be zero for Teslas or any cars that have something called "autopilot".

hydrogen7800 1y ago

I find myself asking "how is this legal" several times a day lately. Why does "tech" get to stress-test long standing rules and norms? It's an attitude of "I dare you to regulate us". I'm remembering a comment on HN a week or so ago . To paraphrase: "thing, but from the internet".

wasting_time 1y ago
[dead]
ricardobeat 1y ago
The article says it “speeds” but provides no sources or evidence, you might want to take that with a grain of salt. Here’s a video of the new mode, it seems pretty normal, you wouldn’t bat an eye to a friend driving in the exact same way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8uIPsaF-yY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8uIPsaF-yY Not that I would trust it with my life at this point in time, but the claims do seem exaggerated.
- tacitusarc 1y ago
  There is effectively 0 traffic to contend with in that video. I do not see how you could reasonably claim that video should alleviate fears about unsafe behavior.
  - ricardobeat 1y ago
    It does not seem to go over the speed limit, even on an empty road?

beefnugs 1y ago

Isn't it kind of dumb that only after something like this hits world wide distributed news does anyone investigate anything?

lux-lux-lux 1y ago
The feature was only available this month
rsynnott 1y ago
As far as I can see they rolled it out without any warning, and, well, presumably without asking the regulators.

johnisgood 1y ago

How could they think that this is a good idea? Baffling.

cosmicgadget 1y ago
Influencers will post about it and that will resuscitate their brand. Somehow.

dimal 1y ago

“Move fast and break things” is taking on a very literal meaning.

cosmicgadget 1y ago

Does this mode comply with state traffic regulations like follow distance and lane change protocol?

FireBeyond 1y ago
Why would you expect it to? Tesla has had (still has?) settings that allow the user to define how much it is allowed to break the speed limit and whether it can run red lights.
- CaptWillard 1y ago
  I read somewhere that if the user presses the accelerator all the way to the floor, a tesla will indeed go really fast. Won't anyone think of the children?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]