5 ms·

If you step foot in the UK, you would be arrested on the spot.

by deadbabe 1y ago

bee_rider 1y ago
There’s a lot of non-UK world to walk around in.
iamnothere 1y ago
That seems like not a big deal? I never intend to travel to Russia either, or even go near its airspace.
- dalmo3 1y ago
  What if you're flying to France and your plane has to make an emergency landing in the UK? Genuine question.
  - iamnothere 1y ago
    After what happened to Durov I’m not so eager to travel there either. Frankly, given the escalating hostility of the EU to technological freedom, it’s becoming a no-go zone for me. Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, and NZ are still nice to visit, though. It’s a big world.
  - tcfhgj 1y ago
    Only a small minority of people use planes in the first place
- tenacious_tuna 1y ago
  In what universe is that "not a big deal?" That makes an entire country a no-go zone. Worse if it's an offense they could reasonably extradite for. I don't intend to ever travel to Russia or North Korea, but that's not some trivial anecdote about modern life, those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there. What if there's a conference you want to go to, but it's in the UK? Or you have friends you want to visit? Or family, or whatever. That's also an egregious degradation of the UK's position with regard to Western-norms around personal liberties, which itself is worthy of remark.
  - mantas 1y ago
    Some people have friends/family/etc in Russia too yet it does not make it less of a shitty country. Here in Lithuania we there’s at least one or two sob stories every year about somebody visiting relatives in (bela)rus and ending up in prison there. I’m more afraid that anglosphere is showing the way for the rest of west-y world. Looking at chat control stuff and all that jazz, it’s matter of time same stuff becomes a thing in the rest „free“ world.
  - iamnothere 1y ago
    > those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there And now the UK joins the ranks as well. I should add that the US is also a member of this club if you’re foreign or you appear to be foreign, we are no paragon of virtue either.
    - jodrellblank 1y ago
      The uk is “so hostile to the rule of law and individual safety that it’s not reasonable to travel there” because … if you break the UK’s laws they might arrest you? Is this a Poe’s Law comment?
      - iamnothere 1y ago
        Vietnam has extremely strict laws about drugs, but they have the good sense to limit the applicability of those laws to Vietnamese soil. I have no problem traveling to Vietnam just because I might have once smoked a doobie in the US, because Vietnam also has no problem with that. While on VN soil, respect VN laws. Fine by me. The UK on the other hand seems to have forgotten this basic, common approach to international relations and criminal jurisdiction, so if you work on any foreign technology or content that could be targeted by the UK government, it’s better to stay away. (Yes I am aware that the US also doesn’t obey this principle, but that doesn’t make it right.)
        arlcode 1y ago
        I (a layman) believe that part of the "global" scope of the law is to enable actions at home (and some pressure). If they want to order ISPs to block services there needs to be some legal framework to do so. "We contacted them, they didn't respond, now we need to revert to blocking" sounds pretty convincing to me. For your other argument I'll ask the question I ask anytime this comes up: How would you propose laws/regulations on online services are enforced if not (at least in principle) globally?
- nmeagent 1y ago
  You'd better carefully check the flight path of every longer distance route then, otherwise you may find yourself unexpectedly crossing the airspace of countries like Russia (e.g. IME Newark to Hong Kong flew over the polar region and right through the middle of Siberia).
  - iamnothere 1y ago
    This is trivial to check, but yes it’s a good idea to check this for anyone who works on sensitive technology.
- physarum_salad 1y ago
  You are discussing the possibility of a transit arrest for merely hosting a network for free and open-source software projects? No big deal? LOL
SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
Honestly though, I’ve done almost all the travel to the UK I need. It would be kind of an outlaw badge if honor to be banned from a first world country for something like sharing memes they don’t like.
jszymborski 1y ago
IANAL and this is a genuine question: do you have personal liability in this case if your website is owned and operated by a corp?
- mschuster91 1y ago
  In a democracy, the question is "it depends on your pockets, aka how much money you have for a lawyer" - intentional / felony level misconduct can pierce corporate veils. In an autocracy, you're at God's mercy.
- ExpertAdvisor01 1y ago
  Yes . Controlling individuals also are liable. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/online-safety-enforcement-guidance.pdf?v=391925 https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/onli...
msla 1y ago
The King of Thailand is an asshole. There. Now I can't go to Thailand. Why do people act like breaking British law is a bigger deal than breaking Thai law? At least nobody's acting like it's obvious British law applies everywhere, like they tend to do with the GDPR. Turns out, laws end at the limits of the jurisdiction's ability to enforce them! What a concept!
- tjpnz 1y ago
  Unless you're from China.

If you step foot in the UK, you would be arrested on the spot.

bee_rider 1y ago

There’s a lot of non-UK world to walk around in.

iamnothere 1y ago

That seems like not a big deal? I never intend to travel to Russia either, or even go near its airspace.

dalmo3 1y ago
What if you're flying to France and your plane has to make an emergency landing in the UK? Genuine question.
- iamnothere 1y ago
  After what happened to Durov I’m not so eager to travel there either. Frankly, given the escalating hostility of the EU to technological freedom, it’s becoming a no-go zone for me. Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, and NZ are still nice to visit, though. It’s a big world.
- tcfhgj 1y ago
  Only a small minority of people use planes in the first place
tenacious_tuna 1y ago
In what universe is that "not a big deal?" That makes an entire country a no-go zone. Worse if it's an offense they could reasonably extradite for. I don't intend to ever travel to Russia or North Korea, but that's not some trivial anecdote about modern life, those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there. What if there's a conference you want to go to, but it's in the UK? Or you have friends you want to visit? Or family, or whatever. That's also an egregious degradation of the UK's position with regard to Western-norms around personal liberties, which itself is worthy of remark.
- mantas 1y ago
  Some people have friends/family/etc in Russia too yet it does not make it less of a shitty country. Here in Lithuania we there’s at least one or two sob stories every year about somebody visiting relatives in (bela)rus and ending up in prison there. I’m more afraid that anglosphere is showing the way for the rest of west-y world. Looking at chat control stuff and all that jazz, it’s matter of time same stuff becomes a thing in the rest „free“ world.
- iamnothere 1y ago
  > those are regimes so hostile to rule of law and individual safety that it's not reasonable to travel there And now the UK joins the ranks as well. I should add that the US is also a member of this club if you’re foreign or you appear to be foreign, we are no paragon of virtue either.
  - jodrellblank 1y ago
    The uk is “so hostile to the rule of law and individual safety that it’s not reasonable to travel there” because … if you break the UK’s laws they might arrest you? Is this a Poe’s Law comment?
    - iamnothere 1y ago
      Vietnam has extremely strict laws about drugs, but they have the good sense to limit the applicability of those laws to Vietnamese soil. I have no problem traveling to Vietnam just because I might have once smoked a doobie in the US, because Vietnam also has no problem with that. While on VN soil, respect VN laws. Fine by me. The UK on the other hand seems to have forgotten this basic, common approach to international relations and criminal jurisdiction, so if you work on any foreign technology or content that could be targeted by the UK government, it’s better to stay away. (Yes I am aware that the US also doesn’t obey this principle, but that doesn’t make it right.)
      - arlcode 1y ago
        I (a layman) believe that part of the "global" scope of the law is to enable actions at home (and some pressure). If they want to order ISPs to block services there needs to be some legal framework to do so. "We contacted them, they didn't respond, now we need to revert to blocking" sounds pretty convincing to me. For your other argument I'll ask the question I ask anytime this comes up: How would you propose laws/regulations on online services are enforced if not (at least in principle) globally?
nmeagent 1y ago
You'd better carefully check the flight path of every longer distance route then, otherwise you may find yourself unexpectedly crossing the airspace of countries like Russia (e.g. IME Newark to Hong Kong flew over the polar region and right through the middle of Siberia).
- iamnothere 1y ago
  This is trivial to check, but yes it’s a good idea to check this for anyone who works on sensitive technology.
physarum_salad 1y ago
You are discussing the possibility of a transit arrest for merely hosting a network for free and open-source software projects? No big deal? LOL

SV_BubbleTime 1y ago

Honestly though, I’ve done almost all the travel to the UK I need. It would be kind of an outlaw badge if honor to be banned from a first world country for something like sharing memes they don’t like.

jszymborski 1y ago

IANAL and this is a genuine question: do you have personal liability in this case if your website is owned and operated by a corp?

mschuster91 1y ago
In a democracy, the question is "it depends on your pockets, aka how much money you have for a lawyer" - intentional / felony level misconduct can pierce corporate veils. In an autocracy, you're at God's mercy.
ExpertAdvisor01 1y ago
Yes . Controlling individuals also are liable. https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/online-safety-enforcement-guidance.pdf?v=391925 https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/onli...

msla 1y ago

The King of Thailand is an asshole. There. Now I can't go to Thailand. Why do people act like breaking British law is a bigger deal than breaking Thai law? At least nobody's acting like it's obvious British law applies everywhere, like they tend to do with the GDPR. Turns out, laws end at the limits of the jurisdiction's ability to enforce them! What a concept!

tjpnz 1y ago
Unless you're from China.