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For comparison, I just bought a house here in Japan. Installed 6 minisplit heat pumps across various rooms in the house. All together it cost me 750,000 yen ($5

For comparison, I just bought a house here in Japan. Installed 6 minisplit heat pumps across various rooms in the house. All together it cost me 750,000 yen ($5,000) for the hardware and 90,000 yen ($600) for the install.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
danans 1y ago
Japan is where early air-source heat pumps first achieved market success, so it's unsurprising that they are much cheaper to install there, because of the relatively large number of installer options. In the US, they are struggling to break out of the eco-luxury product niche (where they have been stuck for a long time).
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Which is weird because they are quite ugly, both inside and outside.
  - danans 1y ago
    Compared to a conventional A/C compressor (which they replace), heat pump compressors are much smaller, quieter, and less ugly. As for the indoor units, they can either be the "ugly" ones (the indoor head units visible on the wall), recessed "cassettes", or they can use traditional A/C air handlers in a utility room to distribute conditioned air via existing duct-runs and registers. There are also companies like Quilt that are making heat pump systems with much more attractive indoor wall units.
    - drob518 1y ago
      I was curious about sound for both the indoor and outdoor pieces. The outside condenser for my current AC is very loud. Are the heat pump units quieter, and if so, why?
      - brianwawok 1y ago
        I cannot hear my outdoor unit from 4 feet away. It’s just an engineering choice. Use a $2 bearing or a 2 cent one?
      - Shog9 1y ago
        Better variable frequency drives for both fans and compressor is a big part of it (see other comments about being less prone to short-cycling). This isn't exactly new or unique to heat pumps (and some older heat pumps lack both), but as the technology has gotten cheaper and more reliable, coupled with the drive for better efficiency, it has become commonplace.
      - deinonychus 1y ago
        Speaking as an apartment dweller, my new apartment's ductless setup is much quieter (inside) than my old apartment's blower. At the old place, the fan was either on or off and must have added another 10 or 20 db of noise forcing you to always keep the TV remote nearby in case the fan turned on or off. It's very convenient that I can control my ductless unit's fan speed with a remote.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
nine_k 1y ago
How much time did it take?
- kalleboo 1y ago
  They arrived at 9 AM, was done by 2:30 PM
upcoming-sesame 1y ago
Do you mean 6 A/C units ? I. e. 6 outdoor and indoor units regardless, this is incredibly cheap
- zemvpferreira 1y ago
  It’s very normal here in Portugal. If you looked carefully and weren’t picky about the brands, you could have 6 mini-splits installed for $3000 all-in.
  - upcoming-sesame 1y ago
    Parent mentioned $600 for the install. I live in Portugal as well, paid around $500 for ~one~ mini split A/C install
    - wongarsu 1y ago
      I would expect that installing six is maybe twice as expensive as installing one. All the overhead of scheduling the technician, traveling to the location, getting the tools out, etc stay the same. Installing six is vastly more efficient and that should be reflected in the price GP still got an amazing deal
      - zemvpferreira 1y ago
        Maybe I wasn't clear but when I commented, I meant to say you could buy and have installed 6 mini-splits for $3000 (machines included).
- kalleboo 1y ago
  It's units in 6 different rooms (3 bed, office, living, dining) so 6 sets of units. After reading some other comments I realize one vital detail is that they were installed in a renovated house that already had suitable holes to the outside and power outlets where the units were going, so the install job was just mounting the units, pulling the tubing and gassing it, no cutting things up or doing electrical work. The price would at least double if we needed all the holes cut open, and I have no idea what the electrical work would cost.
canpan 1y ago
Another person living in Japan. Sounds about right. A unit from a good brand (daikin, mitsubishi) costs ~$800? More or less depending on the room size. We had them installed when we built the house, installation price included. Two are enough to keep our house cool or warm in any season (it's a well insulated house). We have another in the guest room, use it only for when guests stay.
- kalleboo 1y ago
  Our renovation company had rip-off pricing on years-old models, so we just asked a few electronics stores for quotes. First looked up the cheapest online options as baseline pricing, and then used the in-store sale deals to stay at the same total price but get the units in the bigger rooms upgraded to fancier/higher grade options.
steveBK123 1y ago
In US the labor & markup is a huge component. I got HVAC drop-in replacement quotes ranging from $7k to $14k for what upon some quick research was about $3k in hardware.
- orwin 1y ago
  Can you do the installation yourself? In my country i have to make a HVAC technician come to check the installation and sign a paper before i can start mine (200€ for a 15 minutes job, but it's less than the 2-4k it would cost to not do it myself) [edit] i say that because my hardware is 2.5k euros, so ~3k¯dollars, so we probably have the same high end stuff, and i guarantee you it's not hard to install, and it can be quite fast if you have help from your SO.
  - steveBK123 1y ago
    Central air system with indoor blower & outdoor condenser generally don't come with pre-charged lines so self-install without certification isn't really an option in US.
    - mothballed 1y ago
      I got my EPA 608 universal for free after 2 night of cramming and an online proctored test. Skillcat, I think they charge like $50 if you want a printed card, worth it to me because I wanted to be able to walk into supply houses and buy refrigerant.
      - theoreticalmal 1y ago
        I always wondered how difficult it was to do this. I’m really glad to know it’s possible
        mothballed 1y ago
        Getting the 608 is mostly rote memorization and the only thing required at the federal level. On the state level if you want a trade license that generally takes 4 years, but where I live residential owner-builder doesn't need it.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

danans 1y ago

Japan is where early air-source heat pumps first achieved market success, so it's unsurprising that they are much cheaper to install there, because of the relatively large number of installer options. In the US, they are struggling to break out of the eco-luxury product niche (where they have been stuck for a long time).

SoftTalker 1y ago
Which is weird because they are quite ugly, both inside and outside.
- danans 1y ago
  Compared to a conventional A/C compressor (which they replace), heat pump compressors are much smaller, quieter, and less ugly. As for the indoor units, they can either be the "ugly" ones (the indoor head units visible on the wall), recessed "cassettes", or they can use traditional A/C air handlers in a utility room to distribute conditioned air via existing duct-runs and registers. There are also companies like Quilt that are making heat pump systems with much more attractive indoor wall units.
  - drob518 1y ago
    I was curious about sound for both the indoor and outdoor pieces. The outside condenser for my current AC is very loud. Are the heat pump units quieter, and if so, why?
    - brianwawok 1y ago
      I cannot hear my outdoor unit from 4 feet away. It’s just an engineering choice. Use a $2 bearing or a 2 cent one?
    - Shog9 1y ago
      Better variable frequency drives for both fans and compressor is a big part of it (see other comments about being less prone to short-cycling). This isn't exactly new or unique to heat pumps (and some older heat pumps lack both), but as the technology has gotten cheaper and more reliable, coupled with the drive for better efficiency, it has become commonplace.
    - deinonychus 1y ago
      Speaking as an apartment dweller, my new apartment's ductless setup is much quieter (inside) than my old apartment's blower. At the old place, the fan was either on or off and must have added another 10 or 20 db of noise forcing you to always keep the TV remote nearby in case the fan turned on or off. It's very convenient that I can control my ductless unit's fan speed with a remote.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

nine_k 1y ago

How much time did it take?

kalleboo 1y ago
They arrived at 9 AM, was done by 2:30 PM

upcoming-sesame 1y ago

Do you mean 6 A/C units ? I. e. 6 outdoor and indoor units regardless, this is incredibly cheap

zemvpferreira 1y ago
It’s very normal here in Portugal. If you looked carefully and weren’t picky about the brands, you could have 6 mini-splits installed for $3000 all-in.
- upcoming-sesame 1y ago
  Parent mentioned $600 for the install. I live in Portugal as well, paid around $500 for ~one~ mini split A/C install
  - wongarsu 1y ago
    I would expect that installing six is maybe twice as expensive as installing one. All the overhead of scheduling the technician, traveling to the location, getting the tools out, etc stay the same. Installing six is vastly more efficient and that should be reflected in the price GP still got an amazing deal
    - zemvpferreira 1y ago
      Maybe I wasn't clear but when I commented, I meant to say you could buy and have installed 6 mini-splits for $3000 (machines included).
kalleboo 1y ago
It's units in 6 different rooms (3 bed, office, living, dining) so 6 sets of units. After reading some other comments I realize one vital detail is that they were installed in a renovated house that already had suitable holes to the outside and power outlets where the units were going, so the install job was just mounting the units, pulling the tubing and gassing it, no cutting things up or doing electrical work. The price would at least double if we needed all the holes cut open, and I have no idea what the electrical work would cost.

canpan 1y ago

Another person living in Japan. Sounds about right. A unit from a good brand (daikin, mitsubishi) costs ~$800? More or less depending on the room size. We had them installed when we built the house, installation price included. Two are enough to keep our house cool or warm in any season (it's a well insulated house). We have another in the guest room, use it only for when guests stay.

kalleboo 1y ago
Our renovation company had rip-off pricing on years-old models, so we just asked a few electronics stores for quotes. First looked up the cheapest online options as baseline pricing, and then used the in-store sale deals to stay at the same total price but get the units in the bigger rooms upgraded to fancier/higher grade options.

steveBK123 1y ago

In US the labor & markup is a huge component. I got HVAC drop-in replacement quotes ranging from $7k to $14k for what upon some quick research was about $3k in hardware.

orwin 1y ago
Can you do the installation yourself? In my country i have to make a HVAC technician come to check the installation and sign a paper before i can start mine (200€ for a 15 minutes job, but it's less than the 2-4k it would cost to not do it myself) [edit] i say that because my hardware is 2.5k euros, so ~3k¯dollars, so we probably have the same high end stuff, and i guarantee you it's not hard to install, and it can be quite fast if you have help from your SO.
- steveBK123 1y ago
  Central air system with indoor blower & outdoor condenser generally don't come with pre-charged lines so self-install without certification isn't really an option in US.
  - mothballed 1y ago
    I got my EPA 608 universal for free after 2 night of cramming and an online proctored test. Skillcat, I think they charge like $50 if you want a printed card, worth it to me because I wanted to be able to walk into supply houses and buy refrigerant.
    - theoreticalmal 1y ago
      I always wondered how difficult it was to do this. I’m really glad to know it’s possible
      - mothballed 1y ago
        Getting the 608 is mostly rote memorization and the only thing required at the federal level. On the state level if you want a trade license that generally takes 4 years, but where I live residential owner-builder doesn't need it.