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I’m in California, I have two heat pumps installed. I can sum up the problems as follows: 1. They are EXPENSIVE. The equipment itself isn’t that expensive tbh

I’m in California, I have two heat pumps installed. I can sum up the problems as follows: 1. They are EXPENSIVE. The equipment itself isn’t that expensive tbh but installation is pretty expensive. The government subsidies have made sure that the contractors jack up their own prices by as much. 2. I end up paying more in utilities because electricity is very expensive and heat pumps aren’t nearly as good at heating in the winters as old fashioned gas furnaces when it comes to the cost. I made the massive investment because I could and I eventually want my house to run completely on rooftop solar as a way to reduce my carbon footprint. But the cost is nowhere near mass market adoption price range.

ssuds 1y ago
I wrote an op-ed in the SF Chronicle a few months ago about electricity costs in California holding back electrification, it's a real challenge: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/heat-pump-energy-california-20802968.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/heat-p... That said, I've found that in most cases (assuming you're on the right electric rate plan, that's a whole other conversation, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42763695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42763695), most homeowners in california actually see operating cost parity or a slight decrease, even with super expensive electricity. Silicon Valley Clean Energy recently did a study substantiating this: https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Bill-Impacts-of-Home-Electrification-Feb-2025.pdf https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Bill-Impacts-of...
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  > most homeowners in california actually see operating cost parity or a slight decrease, even with super expensive electricity But you’re missing my first point though, installing a heat pump system comes with a price tag of tens of thousands of dollars. I’m not doing that if my operating cost is at parity or a slight decrease. It’s the same reason people are no longer incentivized to install solar. And to add to that, installing heat pumps also come with additional costs that can range anywhere from a few thousand dollars to replace the main electrical panel to tens of thousands of dollars for a full electrical upgrade if your house is on knob and tube wiring to reduce fire risks.
  - morshu9001 1y ago
    I feel like home solar makes no sense without subsidies, even now with economies of scale. Commercial solar may be a different story.
    - parpfish 1y ago
      home solar makes sense when you live out in the boonies and there's an unreliable grid that goes down in storms
    - kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
      If you DIY everything and go with server rack batteries you can keep the costs low enough for a reasonable break even point. Any middleman is going to gouge.
      - next_xibalba 1y ago
        That is awesome and I wish I had these skills. But it also rules out the vast majority of homeowners.
    - doubleg72 1y ago
      I just got 10 new 585w panels and inverter for under $5k. A battery is gonna cost me $1500 but at $350 month for electricity, not sure how you can claim it not worth it.
      - morshu9001 1y ago
        If I can actually get a home solar setup for $6.5K, I'll do it, but that'd mean every solar company is a scam.
    - laurencerowe 1y ago
      Home solar makes perfect sense in Australia - a market with similar Labour costs to California - because they do it for 1/3rd of the cost. It makes no sense in California when the subsidies alone are higher than the total costs for utility scale solar.
- pureagave 1y ago
  Electricity prices in San Francisco are so bad that it makes gasoline a reasonable alternative to an electric car.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
thevillagechief 1y ago
I got a heat pump with a backup gas furnace this year. A heat pump just felt like a no-brainer of I was going to get an AC anyway. But gas in PA tends to be cheaper, so the system will use gas at a certain point. The problem is I couldn't have picked a whose installer if I was throwing darts at the wall, but that's another story.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
sitharus 1y ago
I was shocked when I saw the price of heat pump installation in the US, even with an existing ducted system. There’s no reason a reversible heat pump system should be significantly more expensive than a cooling only one.
- rootusrootus 1y ago
  It's going to vary by installer, of course, but when I looked into getting a heat pump it was about $1500 more than just replacing the A/C condenser and evaporator with a like-for-like unit. Keeping the existing natural gas furnace as backup. This was in the PNW, about three years ago. $4500 for A/C, $6000 to replace it with a heat pump instead.
- yojo 1y ago
  It’s bonkers. I bought a pre-charged ductless mini split to DIY. Took my dad and I about four hours to do the install. So call it 8 hours of semi-skilled labor. The unit was $1350, I added a line set cover, pad and feet for another $200, and needed about $200 in electrical equipment - it was a long wire run and code requires installing a disconnect box. The only special tool was a hole saw bit for running the coolant lines. So maybe $1850 all-in, plus 8 hours labor. I’m sure a pro could do it in half the time. But the low end for a pro install is $5k. I get that they have insurance and warranty or whatever, but that’s a damn juicy margin.
  - raddan 1y ago
    I did the same thing and spent slightly less than you did because I did not need the extra linesets, etc. I was also able to install this in a location that few professionals would have tolerated (interior wall). My thinking was that even if the unit died, I would have saved so much on installation that it wouldn’t even matter. It’s a great unit too. Installation costs are kind of a racket.
  - EngCanMan 1y ago
    Umm, I encourage you to do that math a little closer. A contractor would have to; Come to your house to quote, and only land 1/4 quotes maybe. Schedule the workers Order the equipment. Get an electrical permit. Pay for the truck and all the tools. Insurance for the company and trucks. Advertising costs Warranty and callbacks I can assure you that this is not the get rich quick scheme you may think it is.
smileysteve 1y ago
Re #2. Tuning a heat pump vs resistive heat is a much tougher game than it should be. In a moderate climate, I use my ecobee to ensure aux heat doesn't come on until it's below freezing, and it should only come on if something has gone wrong at that point too. Unfortunately, many thermostats by default will use resistive heat in relatively normal scenarios, of worse, when you've programmed home and away times intended for efficiency but disparate enough to activate resistive heat.
- relaxing 1y ago
  In a moderate climate you should have no need for resistive heat. Why isn’t running the heat pump alone enough?
  - maxerickson 1y ago
    They are saying that badly configured controls often run the resistive heat when it isn't needed.
vladgur 1y ago
That is precisely why im not planning to install a heatpump until i have rooftop solar. Here in Bay Area my gas furnace is generally off late March through late october and while gas costs have gone up over the years, electricity easily goes up 10% year over year. We are currently in $0.43 per kwh territory OFF-PEAK. This is nearly 3 times the average rate in the United States. I wont be investing $$$ in heatpumps until i spend $$$$ on solar panels and that wont happen till i replace my roof in a few years. PS. this is why buying a hybrid a few years ago instead of buying an electric was a good call. Our gas prices stayed pretty much the same, while our electricity is up 30% since that time.
surajrmal 1y ago
The same problems apply to evs and yet people seem to buy those too. Maybe most folks end up getting them second hand which is not an option for heat pump. Solar + heat pump will take me 10+ years to come out financially ahead (if not longer) but if you're invested for the long term it does come out ahead (even factoring in opportunity cost). The comfort level is also dramatically better in my house due to more even temperature, so I would argue in many situations it can be worth a premium. I thought for sure I was going to need ductless per room to get this level of comfort but it turned out to not be true. If you didn't have ac before, it's also nice to have the option to use it on hot days.

ssuds 1y ago

I wrote an op-ed in the SF Chronicle a few months ago about electricity costs in California holding back electrification, it's a real challenge: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/heat-pump-energy-california-20802968.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/heat-p... That said, I've found that in most cases (assuming you're on the right electric rate plan, that's a whole other conversation, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42763695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42763695), most homeowners in california actually see operating cost parity or a slight decrease, even with super expensive electricity. Silicon Valley Clean Energy recently did a study substantiating this: https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Bill-Impacts-of-Home-Electrification-Feb-2025.pdf https://svcleanenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/Bill-Impacts-of...

darth_avocado 1y ago
> most homeowners in california actually see operating cost parity or a slight decrease, even with super expensive electricity But you’re missing my first point though, installing a heat pump system comes with a price tag of tens of thousands of dollars. I’m not doing that if my operating cost is at parity or a slight decrease. It’s the same reason people are no longer incentivized to install solar. And to add to that, installing heat pumps also come with additional costs that can range anywhere from a few thousand dollars to replace the main electrical panel to tens of thousands of dollars for a full electrical upgrade if your house is on knob and tube wiring to reduce fire risks.
- morshu9001 1y ago
  I feel like home solar makes no sense without subsidies, even now with economies of scale. Commercial solar may be a different story.
  - parpfish 1y ago
    home solar makes sense when you live out in the boonies and there's an unreliable grid that goes down in storms
  - kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
    If you DIY everything and go with server rack batteries you can keep the costs low enough for a reasonable break even point. Any middleman is going to gouge.
    - next_xibalba 1y ago
      That is awesome and I wish I had these skills. But it also rules out the vast majority of homeowners.
  - doubleg72 1y ago
    I just got 10 new 585w panels and inverter for under $5k. A battery is gonna cost me $1500 but at $350 month for electricity, not sure how you can claim it not worth it.
    - morshu9001 1y ago
      If I can actually get a home solar setup for $6.5K, I'll do it, but that'd mean every solar company is a scam.
  - laurencerowe 1y ago
    Home solar makes perfect sense in Australia - a market with similar Labour costs to California - because they do it for 1/3rd of the cost. It makes no sense in California when the subsidies alone are higher than the total costs for utility scale solar.
pureagave 1y ago
Electricity prices in San Francisco are so bad that it makes gasoline a reasonable alternative to an electric car.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

thevillagechief 1y ago

I got a heat pump with a backup gas furnace this year. A heat pump just felt like a no-brainer of I was going to get an AC anyway. But gas in PA tends to be cheaper, so the system will use gas at a certain point. The problem is I couldn't have picked a whose installer if I was throwing darts at the wall, but that's another story.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

sitharus 1y ago

I was shocked when I saw the price of heat pump installation in the US, even with an existing ducted system. There’s no reason a reversible heat pump system should be significantly more expensive than a cooling only one.

rootusrootus 1y ago
It's going to vary by installer, of course, but when I looked into getting a heat pump it was about $1500 more than just replacing the A/C condenser and evaporator with a like-for-like unit. Keeping the existing natural gas furnace as backup. This was in the PNW, about three years ago. $4500 for A/C, $6000 to replace it with a heat pump instead.
yojo 1y ago
It’s bonkers. I bought a pre-charged ductless mini split to DIY. Took my dad and I about four hours to do the install. So call it 8 hours of semi-skilled labor. The unit was $1350, I added a line set cover, pad and feet for another $200, and needed about $200 in electrical equipment - it was a long wire run and code requires installing a disconnect box. The only special tool was a hole saw bit for running the coolant lines. So maybe $1850 all-in, plus 8 hours labor. I’m sure a pro could do it in half the time. But the low end for a pro install is $5k. I get that they have insurance and warranty or whatever, but that’s a damn juicy margin.
- raddan 1y ago
  I did the same thing and spent slightly less than you did because I did not need the extra linesets, etc. I was also able to install this in a location that few professionals would have tolerated (interior wall). My thinking was that even if the unit died, I would have saved so much on installation that it wouldn’t even matter. It’s a great unit too. Installation costs are kind of a racket.
- EngCanMan 1y ago
  Umm, I encourage you to do that math a little closer. A contractor would have to; Come to your house to quote, and only land 1/4 quotes maybe. Schedule the workers Order the equipment. Get an electrical permit. Pay for the truck and all the tools. Insurance for the company and trucks. Advertising costs Warranty and callbacks I can assure you that this is not the get rich quick scheme you may think it is.

smileysteve 1y ago

Re #2. Tuning a heat pump vs resistive heat is a much tougher game than it should be. In a moderate climate, I use my ecobee to ensure aux heat doesn't come on until it's below freezing, and it should only come on if something has gone wrong at that point too. Unfortunately, many thermostats by default will use resistive heat in relatively normal scenarios, of worse, when you've programmed home and away times intended for efficiency but disparate enough to activate resistive heat.

relaxing 1y ago
In a moderate climate you should have no need for resistive heat. Why isn’t running the heat pump alone enough?
- maxerickson 1y ago
  They are saying that badly configured controls often run the resistive heat when it isn't needed.

vladgur 1y ago

That is precisely why im not planning to install a heatpump until i have rooftop solar. Here in Bay Area my gas furnace is generally off late March through late october and while gas costs have gone up over the years, electricity easily goes up 10% year over year. We are currently in $0.43 per kwh territory OFF-PEAK. This is nearly 3 times the average rate in the United States. I wont be investing $$$ in heatpumps until i spend $$$$ on solar panels and that wont happen till i replace my roof in a few years. PS. this is why buying a hybrid a few years ago instead of buying an electric was a good call. Our gas prices stayed pretty much the same, while our electricity is up 30% since that time.

surajrmal 1y ago

The same problems apply to evs and yet people seem to buy those too. Maybe most folks end up getting them second hand which is not an option for heat pump. Solar + heat pump will take me 10+ years to come out financially ahead (if not longer) but if you're invested for the long term it does come out ahead (even factoring in opportunity cost). The comfort level is also dramatically better in my house due to more even temperature, so I would argue in many situations it can be worth a premium. I thought for sure I was going to need ductless per room to get this level of comfort but it turned out to not be true. If you didn't have ac before, it's also nice to have the option to use it on hot days.