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The tide does seem to be turning that way, though I do think it will be possible to buy general purpose computers for the foreseeable future. Also as a minor c

The tide does seem to be turning that way, though I do think it will be possible to buy general purpose computers for the foreseeable future. Also as a minor counter point, the only reason Asahi is even possible is that Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips. They certainly could have locked them down just like they did the iPhone and iPad, but they didn't. That was a conscious choice according to the Asahi folks. So while they may not be sharing technical documentation/drivers or otherwise making it easy on the Asahi devs, even the famously "walled garden" Apple seems to have explicitly not restricted their new line of computers in the way you're describing.

transpute 1y ago
> Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips Thank Xeno, who has since been creating open-source training on low-level firmware security at https://p.ost2.fyi https://p.ost2.fyi, a new iteration of open training material published ~15 years ago at https://opensecuritytraining.info https://opensecuritytraining.info before joining Apple. https://archive.fosdem.org/2022/schedule/speaker/xeno_kovah/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2022/schedule/speaker/xeno_kovah/ his final project was leading the M1 SecureBoot architecture - being directly responsible for designing a system that could provide iOS-level security, while still allowing customer choice to trust arbitrary non-Apple code such as Linux bootloaders.
Rohansi 1y ago
> Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips Don't you think it's interesting that it's an option for Macs but not iPad Pros? They both use the same SoC. > So while they may not be sharing technical documentation/drivers or otherwise making it easy on the Asahi devs, even the famously "walled garden" Apple seems to have explicitly not restricted their new line of computers in the way you're describing. Give it a few more years. Asahi will probably be so far behind that it wouldn't even matter. Eventually they can just turn off allowing third-party operating systems on new hardware.
- GeekyBear 1y ago
  > Don't you think it's interesting that it's an option for Macs but not iPad Pros? They both use the same SoC. Apple has always sold iPads as a closed walled garden and Macs as an open platform. Apple designed the Apple Silicon Mac hardware to allow you to run an unsigned third party OS without a negative security impact when you run MacOS, because it is an open platform. However we have definitely seen examples of other formerly open platforms facing new restrictions. Android was sold to the public as an open platform that Google is actively closing with new restrictions to side loading apps Windows was sold to the public as an open platform, but Microsoft is locking out users who refuse to use an online account to access their local computer.
- transpute 1y ago
  > an option for Macs but not iPad Pros PTSD can block lights in tunnels. 2024: UTM SE entered iOS App Store, https://www.tomshardware.com/phones/iphone/utm-se-emulator-release-for-apple-ios-unleashes-i486-or-powerpc-fun-on-your-iphone-ipad-or-vision-pro https://www.tomshardware.com/phones/iphone/utm-se-emulator-r... The team implemented a version of the Qemu Tiny-Code Threaded Interpreter (TCTI). Qemu TCTI interprets the code rather than compiling it, allowing Turing Software to get around the JIT ban. Mind you, this results in a rather slow experience even by the standards of the emulated hardware. 2025: https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/01/jit-enabler-lands-on-app-store-likely-unlocking-wii-and-switch-emulation-on-ios/ https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/01/jit-enabler-lands-on-app-stor... StikDebug enables on-device JIT for any app, making it possible to run DolphiniOS without sideloading or tethering to a PC or Mac.. approved in the U.S. App Store. Sep 2025: sideloaded UTM supports JIT on iOS26 with StikDebug, https://x.com/utmapp/status/1967990008364798091 https://x.com/utmapp/status/1967990008364798091
  - Rohansi 1y ago
    Emulation is completely different to actually running a different OS on your device. The fact that you need to launch apps through a debugger to enable JIT is hilarious though. Every other platform either allows it all the time or doesn't! I would not count on it staying on the App Store - Apple can remove it whenever they want to
Lammy 1y ago
> Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips Is it possible to buy a compatible M-whatever Mac and install Linux on it without network access, without it phoning home to Apple for permission? Sincere question since I have only used one Apple Silicon Mac ever, and it was a work machine so I never tried Asahi on it. I am curious about the privacy implications of non-macOS support.
- einsteinx2 1y ago
  Hmm you know I’m actually not sure. I think at least currently you have to do the install from macOS so I guess you have to set it up once at least, but I’m not sure if that actually requires internet access. I so know that once you have Asahi installed you never need to boot into macOS again if you don’t want to and don’t require network checkins or anything like that to keep using it. Also unlike Windows 11, it’s trivial to set up macOS without ever creating an account with Apple, so you don’t have to give them personal info or even an email or anything to do the initial macOS setup.

transpute 1y ago

> Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips Thank Xeno, who has since been creating open-source training on low-level firmware security at https://p.ost2.fyi https://p.ost2.fyi, a new iteration of open training material published ~15 years ago at https://opensecuritytraining.info https://opensecuritytraining.info before joining Apple. https://archive.fosdem.org/2022/schedule/speaker/xeno_kovah/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2022/schedule/speaker/xeno_kovah/ his final project was leading the M1 SecureBoot architecture - being directly responsible for designing a system that could provide iOS-level security, while still allowing customer choice to trust arbitrary non-Apple code such as Linux bootloaders.

Rohansi 1y ago

> Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips Don't you think it's interesting that it's an option for Macs but not iPad Pros? They both use the same SoC. > So while they may not be sharing technical documentation/drivers or otherwise making it easy on the Asahi devs, even the famously "walled garden" Apple seems to have explicitly not restricted their new line of computers in the way you're describing. Give it a few more years. Asahi will probably be so far behind that it wouldn't even matter. Eventually they can just turn off allowing third-party operating systems on new hardware.

GeekyBear 1y ago
> Don't you think it's interesting that it's an option for Macs but not iPad Pros? They both use the same SoC. Apple has always sold iPads as a closed walled garden and Macs as an open platform. Apple designed the Apple Silicon Mac hardware to allow you to run an unsigned third party OS without a negative security impact when you run MacOS, because it is an open platform. However we have definitely seen examples of other formerly open platforms facing new restrictions. Android was sold to the public as an open platform that Google is actively closing with new restrictions to side loading apps Windows was sold to the public as an open platform, but Microsoft is locking out users who refuse to use an online account to access their local computer.
transpute 1y ago
> an option for Macs but not iPad Pros PTSD can block lights in tunnels. 2024: UTM SE entered iOS App Store, https://www.tomshardware.com/phones/iphone/utm-se-emulator-release-for-apple-ios-unleashes-i486-or-powerpc-fun-on-your-iphone-ipad-or-vision-pro https://www.tomshardware.com/phones/iphone/utm-se-emulator-r... The team implemented a version of the Qemu Tiny-Code Threaded Interpreter (TCTI). Qemu TCTI interprets the code rather than compiling it, allowing Turing Software to get around the JIT ban. Mind you, this results in a rather slow experience even by the standards of the emulated hardware. 2025: https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/01/jit-enabler-lands-on-app-store-likely-unlocking-wii-and-switch-emulation-on-ios/ https://9to5mac.com/2025/05/01/jit-enabler-lands-on-app-stor... StikDebug enables on-device JIT for any app, making it possible to run DolphiniOS without sideloading or tethering to a PC or Mac.. approved in the U.S. App Store. Sep 2025: sideloaded UTM supports JIT on iOS26 with StikDebug, https://x.com/utmapp/status/1967990008364798091 https://x.com/utmapp/status/1967990008364798091
- Rohansi 1y ago
  Emulation is completely different to actually running a different OS on your device. The fact that you need to launch apps through a debugger to enable JIT is hilarious though. Every other platform either allows it all the time or doesn't! I would not count on it staying on the App Store - Apple can remove it whenever they want to

Lammy 1y ago

> Apple explicitly designed in support for booting other operating systems into the M-series chips Is it possible to buy a compatible M-whatever Mac and install Linux on it without network access, without it phoning home to Apple for permission? Sincere question since I have only used one Apple Silicon Mac ever, and it was a work machine so I never tried Asahi on it. I am curious about the privacy implications of non-macOS support.

einsteinx2 1y ago
Hmm you know I’m actually not sure. I think at least currently you have to do the install from macOS so I guess you have to set it up once at least, but I’m not sure if that actually requires internet access. I so know that once you have Asahi installed you never need to boot into macOS again if you don’t want to and don’t require network checkins or anything like that to keep using it. Also unlike Windows 11, it’s trivial to set up macOS without ever creating an account with Apple, so you don’t have to give them personal info or even an email or anything to do the initial macOS setup.