9 ms·

> But, man, Apple hardware still rocks. Can't deny that. Ah yes, the Johnny Ive era of "no ports on Macbooks except USB-C, and hope you like touchbars!" was fa

> But, man, Apple hardware still rocks. Can't deny that. Ah yes, the Johnny Ive era of "no ports on Macbooks except USB-C, and hope you like touchbars!" was fantastic. Not to mention how heavy the damn things are. Oh and the sharp edges of the case where my palms rest. And the chiclet keyboards with .0001 mm of key travel. I'll take a carbon fiber Thinkpad with an OLED display any day of the week, thank you. Macbooks feel like user hostile devices and are the epitome of form over function.

bigyabai 1y ago
I owned multiple Macbooks that built a positive static charge when they were on, instilling a Pavlovian fear of being shocked into anyone that used it. Those were fun.
- therein 1y ago
  They still do. My m1, m1max and m4max Macbook Pros all build a positive static charge. It isn't even something that renders it "returnable" because I observed it on every single Macbook in the last 4-5 years so I just assume that's just how Macbook Pros are now.
  - jacobolus 1y ago
    This hasn't changed in at least 2 decades: I was getting zapped by Apple metal laptops circa 2004. But I have never encountered this problem when using a grounded plug. It was also a lot worse for me when plugged into outlets in an old house in Mexico, especially when my bare feet were touching the terracotta floor tiles; it's not really an issue in a recently re-wired house in California with a wood floor, using the same laptops, power strips, etc. If you are having this issue and you currently plug a 2-pronged plug into a grounded outlet, try using Apple's 3-pronged plug instead, and I expect it would go away. If you don't have grounded outlets, then that's a bit more complicated to solve.
    - therein 1y ago
      That's what confuses me, I am using the cable with three prongs, it is grounded. I am beginning to suspect some other appliance I am plugging into it that is responsible of the build-up of charge, but then why is it not finding its way to the ground... something doesn't add up but has been my experience consistently.
      - jacobolus 11mo ago
        Perhaps the outlet isn't properly grounded?
  - trallnag 1y ago
    Is there any laptop with a metal body out there that does not have this issue? I've had two RedmiBook by Xiaomi and both has that vibrating electric feeling to them when plugged in.
    - Liftyee 1y ago
      It's an artifact of the charger. This comment explains it well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45686427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45686427
- drum55 1y ago
  That’s nothing to do with static electricity, it’s capacitive coupling through the safety capacitors in the power supply. The chassis sits at 90vac or so as a result, it’s not a safety issue it’s FCC compliance for emitted noise.
  - ash_091 1y ago
    Is this generally true for laptops / phones? I've often wondered why I can tell by touch whether a device is charging or not from the slight "vibration" sensation I get when gently touching the case.
    - hex4def6 1y ago
      For ungrounded / 2-prong outlet devices, yeah. It's often noticeable if you have a point contact of metal against your skin; sharp edge / screw / speaker grill, etc. Once you have decent coupling between your body and the laptop, you won't feel the tingle / zap. They're called Y-caps if you want to delve deeper into them and their use in power supplies.
    - knifie_spoonie 1y ago
      I get that too. I was wondering if it was just me.
- swiftcoder 1y ago
  If you use the 3-prong version of the power adapter to connect to a grounded outlet, this problem goes away. Of course, Apple doesn't actually sell a 3-prong plug for their charger in Europe... so us lucky folks in the EU have to get a 3rd party one off the internet
  - jen20 1y ago
    Yes, they do. [1] for Italian outlets, [2] for many of the others. I'm sure I don't need to continue. [1]: https://www.apple.com/it/shop/product/mw2n3ci/a/prolunga-per-alimentatore?fnode=4ba86bc4693978780bb9dd0ea07046cc31778b69b51bd3275f1effd3c17b22a7368e89419e1c906d3dad5e1368ab9104718ed4ccee5b63ea30c9ba019f136c0c00e7424387d9f88d50c36f051315f364496f3efa20749c88d8830dd9c61ace32 https://www.apple.com/it/shop/product/mw2n3ci/a/prolunga-per... [2]: https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/mw2n3z/a/câble-d’extension-pour-adaptateur-secteur?fnode=f0f7e965117efe3d2059cd2edc3f93d6e3963a77159af16130698b9b85ac407bb6216391e18bc612e6cebd3a99bf9e9ca50a62ec0988d4ec12409f7aee2c2515748ffbb594d5319e02589eaec499ac651eeccaaeaea5b5d2417a3f29e1a7a108 https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/mw2n3z/a/câble-d’exten...
    - theodric 1y ago
      I suspect what they meant is that there isn't an official Schuko nub that slides onto the brick and lets you hang it directly from the socket rather than carrying an extra meter of cable around. There is a BS1363 one, and those are only legit feasible in a grounded configuration (although I guess you could use a plastic ground spade to lift the child protection slider inside the socket if you were a particularly unpleasant engineer). Nice for those of us in British-adjacent countries.
    - swiftcoder 11mo ago
      I'm talking about the non-corded variants. Carrying an extra metre of cable around just to get the grounding prong is not great. As another poster mentioned, it's particularly annoying because Apple does ship the UK adapter in 3-pin grounded form
      - 11mo ago
NexRebular 1y ago
I miss the Powerbook G3 series. That was some fantastically modular design.
kbolino 1y ago
I don't mind that the Macbooks only have USB-C ports. Unlike many PCs, where the USB-C ports can't be used for charging, or can't be used for high-speed data transfer, or can't be used for external displays, or can't be used by certain software that only speaks USB 2.0, etc., the Macbooks let any USB-C port do anything. It's a forward-thinking decision, even if it was primarily made for aesthetic reasons. What I do mind is that there's only 3 of them.
- wingworks 1y ago
  I only have 2 USB-C ports, and most of the time I have nothing plugged in (but power). Sometimes ethernet USB-C when moving large files.
- ndiddy 1y ago
  The transition era was certainly annoying, but now that it's over I think the Mac experience is objectively worse. My PC laptop has 2 USB-C ports that can be used for charging, display, 40 Gbps transfer, etc., just like my Macbook Air. The difference is that the PC also has 2 USB-A ports and an HDMI port. This means that I'm able to plug in a flash drive or connect an external display without having to remember to bring a dongle with me.
  - kbolino 1y ago
    I largely agree that PCs have caught up feature-wise, but because they took longer to get there, I still have a couple crappy USB-C ports on PCs that are otherwise fine. The problem with the 2 USB-C ports on modern PC laptops is that one of them pretty much has to be reserved for the charger, whereas the MBP has a MagSafe port that you can charge with instead. So it really only feels like you have one USB-C port and the other ports are just there as a consolation. That might work out to roughly equal, but I don't think it leaves the Mac off worse. I don't hate the dongles so much though. It wouldn't have hurt to have some USB-A and HDMI on the MBP--the Minis can pull it off, so clearly the hardware is capable--but more (Thunderbolt) USB-C would still be the best option IMO. USB-A (definitely) and HDMI (probably) will eventually be relics someday, even if they are here for a little while longer.
  - 1y ago
stetrain 1y ago
Most of what you're talking about is from MacBooks of 5+ years ago on a completely different processor architecture.
icedchai 1y ago
I find the keyboards terrible, even the modern ones. I much preferred the 2006-2007 MacBook Pro keyboards.
IshKebab 1y ago
Those are all legit criticisms but also be fair. They eventually did get rid of the touchbar. USB-C-only was merely ahead of its time. They improved the keyboards. And even at their worst they were still much better than any Windows laptops, if only for the touchpad. I have yet to use a Windows laptop with a touchpad even close to the trackpad's that Apple had 15 years ago. And the build quality and styling is still unbeaten. Do Windows laptop makers still put shitty stickers all over them?
- SkyeCA 1y ago
  USB-C only is still a nuisance to this very day and remains the thing I hate most about my Macbook. Without fail there is never an adapter to be found when I need it.
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    I'm kinda bewildered to see people defend it. Even Apple knew they were wrong, they didn't put an HDMI port on the new Mac chassis by mistake. Case in point that people will never admit that Apple messes up, even if Apple themselves will.
linepupdesign 1y ago
[dead]
bschwindHN 11mo ago
That era sucked for sure, but since (I think) 2021, macbook pros have magsafe, 3x USB-C, an HDMI port, and an SD card. I had a 2014 MBP I was waiting to upgrade once they came up with a sensible redesign, and I'd say they did! I still have my 2014, along with a 2021 MBP for work, and still love them as machines for my usage profile - writing software/firmware, and occasional PCB design. The battery life is good, M-series performance is great, screen is decent-to-good, trackpad is still best in class, and macos is _okay_ in my book. The keyboard isn't amazing as I prefer mechanical for sure, but I still type faster on a macbook keyboard than anything else. That being said, I designed a mechanical keyboard that sits on top of the macbook keyboard so I can enjoy that better typing experience. Pretty dang happy with my setup.

bigyabai 1y ago

I owned multiple Macbooks that built a positive static charge when they were on, instilling a Pavlovian fear of being shocked into anyone that used it. Those were fun.

therein 1y ago
They still do. My m1, m1max and m4max Macbook Pros all build a positive static charge. It isn't even something that renders it "returnable" because I observed it on every single Macbook in the last 4-5 years so I just assume that's just how Macbook Pros are now.
- jacobolus 1y ago
  This hasn't changed in at least 2 decades: I was getting zapped by Apple metal laptops circa 2004. But I have never encountered this problem when using a grounded plug. It was also a lot worse for me when plugged into outlets in an old house in Mexico, especially when my bare feet were touching the terracotta floor tiles; it's not really an issue in a recently re-wired house in California with a wood floor, using the same laptops, power strips, etc. If you are having this issue and you currently plug a 2-pronged plug into a grounded outlet, try using Apple's 3-pronged plug instead, and I expect it would go away. If you don't have grounded outlets, then that's a bit more complicated to solve.
  - therein 1y ago
    That's what confuses me, I am using the cable with three prongs, it is grounded. I am beginning to suspect some other appliance I am plugging into it that is responsible of the build-up of charge, but then why is it not finding its way to the ground... something doesn't add up but has been my experience consistently.
    - jacobolus 11mo ago
      Perhaps the outlet isn't properly grounded?
- trallnag 1y ago
  Is there any laptop with a metal body out there that does not have this issue? I've had two RedmiBook by Xiaomi and both has that vibrating electric feeling to them when plugged in.
  - Liftyee 1y ago
    It's an artifact of the charger. This comment explains it well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45686427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45686427
drum55 1y ago
That’s nothing to do with static electricity, it’s capacitive coupling through the safety capacitors in the power supply. The chassis sits at 90vac or so as a result, it’s not a safety issue it’s FCC compliance for emitted noise.
- ash_091 1y ago
  Is this generally true for laptops / phones? I've often wondered why I can tell by touch whether a device is charging or not from the slight "vibration" sensation I get when gently touching the case.
  - hex4def6 1y ago
    For ungrounded / 2-prong outlet devices, yeah. It's often noticeable if you have a point contact of metal against your skin; sharp edge / screw / speaker grill, etc. Once you have decent coupling between your body and the laptop, you won't feel the tingle / zap. They're called Y-caps if you want to delve deeper into them and their use in power supplies.
  - knifie_spoonie 1y ago
    I get that too. I was wondering if it was just me.
swiftcoder 1y ago
If you use the 3-prong version of the power adapter to connect to a grounded outlet, this problem goes away. Of course, Apple doesn't actually sell a 3-prong plug for their charger in Europe... so us lucky folks in the EU have to get a 3rd party one off the internet
- jen20 1y ago
  Yes, they do. [1] for Italian outlets, [2] for many of the others. I'm sure I don't need to continue. [1]: https://www.apple.com/it/shop/product/mw2n3ci/a/prolunga-per-alimentatore?fnode=4ba86bc4693978780bb9dd0ea07046cc31778b69b51bd3275f1effd3c17b22a7368e89419e1c906d3dad5e1368ab9104718ed4ccee5b63ea30c9ba019f136c0c00e7424387d9f88d50c36f051315f364496f3efa20749c88d8830dd9c61ace32 https://www.apple.com/it/shop/product/mw2n3ci/a/prolunga-per... [2]: https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/mw2n3z/a/câble-d’extension-pour-adaptateur-secteur?fnode=f0f7e965117efe3d2059cd2edc3f93d6e3963a77159af16130698b9b85ac407bb6216391e18bc612e6cebd3a99bf9e9ca50a62ec0988d4ec12409f7aee2c2515748ffbb594d5319e02589eaec499ac651eeccaaeaea5b5d2417a3f29e1a7a108 https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/product/mw2n3z/a/câble-d’exten...
  - theodric 1y ago
    I suspect what they meant is that there isn't an official Schuko nub that slides onto the brick and lets you hang it directly from the socket rather than carrying an extra meter of cable around. There is a BS1363 one, and those are only legit feasible in a grounded configuration (although I guess you could use a plastic ground spade to lift the child protection slider inside the socket if you were a particularly unpleasant engineer). Nice for those of us in British-adjacent countries.
  - swiftcoder 11mo ago
    I'm talking about the non-corded variants. Carrying an extra metre of cable around just to get the grounding prong is not great. As another poster mentioned, it's particularly annoying because Apple does ship the UK adapter in 3-pin grounded form
    - 11mo ago

NexRebular 1y ago

I miss the Powerbook G3 series. That was some fantastically modular design.

kbolino 1y ago

I don't mind that the Macbooks only have USB-C ports. Unlike many PCs, where the USB-C ports can't be used for charging, or can't be used for high-speed data transfer, or can't be used for external displays, or can't be used by certain software that only speaks USB 2.0, etc., the Macbooks let any USB-C port do anything. It's a forward-thinking decision, even if it was primarily made for aesthetic reasons. What I do mind is that there's only 3 of them.

wingworks 1y ago
I only have 2 USB-C ports, and most of the time I have nothing plugged in (but power). Sometimes ethernet USB-C when moving large files.
ndiddy 1y ago
The transition era was certainly annoying, but now that it's over I think the Mac experience is objectively worse. My PC laptop has 2 USB-C ports that can be used for charging, display, 40 Gbps transfer, etc., just like my Macbook Air. The difference is that the PC also has 2 USB-A ports and an HDMI port. This means that I'm able to plug in a flash drive or connect an external display without having to remember to bring a dongle with me.
- kbolino 1y ago
  I largely agree that PCs have caught up feature-wise, but because they took longer to get there, I still have a couple crappy USB-C ports on PCs that are otherwise fine. The problem with the 2 USB-C ports on modern PC laptops is that one of them pretty much has to be reserved for the charger, whereas the MBP has a MagSafe port that you can charge with instead. So it really only feels like you have one USB-C port and the other ports are just there as a consolation. That might work out to roughly equal, but I don't think it leaves the Mac off worse. I don't hate the dongles so much though. It wouldn't have hurt to have some USB-A and HDMI on the MBP--the Minis can pull it off, so clearly the hardware is capable--but more (Thunderbolt) USB-C would still be the best option IMO. USB-A (definitely) and HDMI (probably) will eventually be relics someday, even if they are here for a little while longer.
- 1y ago

stetrain 1y ago

Most of what you're talking about is from MacBooks of 5+ years ago on a completely different processor architecture.

icedchai 1y ago

I find the keyboards terrible, even the modern ones. I much preferred the 2006-2007 MacBook Pro keyboards.

IshKebab 1y ago

Those are all legit criticisms but also be fair. They eventually did get rid of the touchbar. USB-C-only was merely ahead of its time. They improved the keyboards. And even at their worst they were still much better than any Windows laptops, if only for the touchpad. I have yet to use a Windows laptop with a touchpad even close to the trackpad's that Apple had 15 years ago. And the build quality and styling is still unbeaten. Do Windows laptop makers still put shitty stickers all over them?

SkyeCA 1y ago
USB-C only is still a nuisance to this very day and remains the thing I hate most about my Macbook. Without fail there is never an adapter to be found when I need it.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  I'm kinda bewildered to see people defend it. Even Apple knew they were wrong, they didn't put an HDMI port on the new Mac chassis by mistake. Case in point that people will never admit that Apple messes up, even if Apple themselves will.

linepupdesign 1y ago

[dead]

bschwindHN 11mo ago

That era sucked for sure, but since (I think) 2021, macbook pros have magsafe, 3x USB-C, an HDMI port, and an SD card. I had a 2014 MBP I was waiting to upgrade once they came up with a sensible redesign, and I'd say they did! I still have my 2014, along with a 2021 MBP for work, and still love them as machines for my usage profile - writing software/firmware, and occasional PCB design. The battery life is good, M-series performance is great, screen is decent-to-good, trackpad is still best in class, and macos is _okay_ in my book. The keyboard isn't amazing as I prefer mechanical for sure, but I still type faster on a macbook keyboard than anything else. That being said, I designed a mechanical keyboard that sits on top of the macbook keyboard so I can enjoy that better typing experience. Pretty dang happy with my setup.