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The idea is not that Na-Ion batteries are better than LFPs, they are not. The main goal is to make them dirt cheap. It seems that $15 per kWh of storage should
by cyberax 1y ago
The idea is not that Na-Ion batteries are better than LFPs, they are not. The main goal is to make them dirt cheap.
It seems that $15 per kWh of storage should be achievable with them. At this price, it's trivial to install enough grid-scale storage to completely move off fossil fuels in more southern areas.
- marsven_422 1y ago[dead]
- measurablefunc 1y ago[flagged]
- cyberax 1y ago> California batteries are constantly going up in flames. What is the fraction of California batteries that went up in flames during the last year?
- measurablefunc 1y ago[flagged]
- cyberax 1y agoYeah, yeah. Care to provide a list of burned batteries?
- measurablefunc 1y ago[flagged]
- jrflowers 1y ago> I don't really do research for random internet strangers They weren’t asking you to do research for them, they asked if you had done research for yourself.
- measurablefunc 1y agoI have all the data I need so let me know when you gather the relevant lifecycle & toxicity stats on your end.
- jrflowers 1y agoYou already admitted that you would have to do research to back up your claim. Like if you had the data you wouldn’t need to “do research” to post it.
- measurablefunc 1y agoI said I don't do free work for strangers on the internet but like I said, let me know when you do your own research. It will be a much better use of time than wasting more keystrokes in this thread.
- jrflowers 1y agoExactly, you would have to do research to answer the question. You haven’t done it for yourself, so why should you do it for a stranger?
- measurablefunc 1y agoWhich question would that be? The one about lifecycle & toxicity or percentage that goes up in flames every few months?
- jrflowers 1y ago> Which question would that be? Probably the questions about all the batteries you claim are burning. The ones that you read earlier and then said that you can answer. “I would have to do research to find a list of batteries that burned and the percentage of the batteries that burned and I do not want to do that research” “I already did the research and have a list of burned batteries and know the percentage of them that burn but I will not share it until you research it and give your findings to me” “With all this talk of ‘what batteries burned’ and ‘the percentage of the batteries that burned’ I have completely lost track of what anyone wants to know re: my statements about all of the batteries that I claimed are burning”
- ajuc 1y agoconstantly = once
- measurablefunc 1y agoThere will be another one in less than 6 months¹. How much are you willing to bet? ¹https://newenergyrisk.com/battery-fires/ https://newenergyrisk.com/battery-fires/
- jrflowers 1y agoI like that you made a post complaining about people not sourcing their claims and then eight minutes later made a post declining to source your particular claim
- measurablefunc 1y agoLink is right there. You're welcome to recover whatever stats are interesting to you instead of asking strangers to do free work.
- jrflowers 1y agoThe information requested does not exist in the link you posted.
- measurablefunc 1y agoThat's odd. I wonder why they wouldn't provide that information.
- Dylan16807 1y agoYou can just admit you exaggerated a lot.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- measurablefunc 1y agoAnd you can admit you are uncritically supporting technology w/o understanding its safety & toxicity b/c it seems "cheap".
- jrflowers 1y agohttps://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up
- ZenoArrow 1y agoSodium ion batteries are typically safer than lithium ion batteries. They operate safely over a wider range of temperatures, and have reduced risk of self-combustion.
- measurablefunc 1y agoMost boosters never provide lifecycle & toxicity statistics b/c it tends to run counter to their utopian narratives. What is the typical lifecycle & toxicity profile for these batteries?
- lelandbatey 1y agoMost contrarians fail to compare their detractions against alternatives such as "maintaining the status quo". Maybe batteries with hazardous chemicals in solid state form inside solid housings aren't particularly net-negative by comparison to most existing casual energy storage alternatives such as internal combustion, at least to most laypeople?
- lambdaone 1y agoThey also produce much less harmful combustion products when they do catch fire.
- madaxe_again 1y agoThose are lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide batteries in your example, not sodium. I’m not sure what your point is? All batteries are bad? Oil is good? What?
- Lutger 1y agoYou make a claim without a source and refuse to back it up when asked, yet you are doubling down on your confidence in the initial statement. There's an interesting discussion to be had, but this is not it. There are several factors to be considered: the actual risk of older and newer systems, the impact, how to mitigate a fire and avoid the worst consequences, and weighing against the alternatives. Especially the latter is somehow always absent in denialist narratives. However, when the alternative is basically heating the planet into a dystopian hellscape, we may accept some negatives of any kind of technology that doesn't put our whole existence at risk. We need to be real about the downsides yes, but let's also be real and accept we don't have any choice but push forward. Here is my 1 minute AI powered 'research' btw: "The fire risk for battery plant storage is not a single, universally agreed-upon percentage, but available data suggests a low and decreasing risk, especially for properly maintained and installed systems. For example, one study found the 2023 risk for home battery systems to be \(0.0049\%\), while another source reports a \(97\%\) drop in large-scale system failures between 2018 and 2023. The risk is influenced by factors like manufacturing quality, installation, and maintenance." Doesn't seem all that alarming yet.
- measurablefunc 1y agoThose facts seem hallucinated so you should follow your own advice & post the actual sources.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoThey are better in cold and have higher charge rates. Eventually (10-20years) they’ll be cheaper than LFP. All while 15% lower volumetric density.
- mycall 1y agoNa-Ion batteries are better than LFPs when considered the temperature range between 0C and 0f. In this [0] review, prof hobo demonstrates this is the only reason to by Na-Ion (right now). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZ_g_MShTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZ_g_MShTw
- bmicraft 1y agoYour mixing of units is baffling, almost nobody knows both Celsius and Fahrenheit. For the rest of us: -18°C to 0°C 0°F to 32°F
- NekkoDroid 1y agoI knew what 0°C is in °F since I know the °C to °F conversion rate, but my European self isn't able to assign any actual reference to that, which made it kinda useless to me :)
- tonyedgecombe 1y agoThe $15/kWh is misleading as it's only the cost of the raw materials.
- justlikereddit 1y agoThe article claims CATL have given bulk cell pricing at 19$/kWh. That still leaves an Additional overhead due to power electronics and assembly but all in all it's a pretty impressive development.