4 ms·

I can actually relate to that, especially in a big co where you hire fast. I think it's shitty to over-hire and lay off, but I've definitely worked in many tea

I can actually relate to that, especially in a big co where you hire fast. I think it's shitty to over-hire and lay off, but I've definitely worked in many teams where there were just too many people (many very smart) with their own sense of priorities and goals, and it makes it hard to anything done. This is especially true when you over-divide areas of responsiblity.

drivebyhooting 1y ago
Those people have families and responsibilities. Leadership should take responsibility for their poor planning. Alas, the burden falls on the little guys. Especially in this kind of labor market.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Hard agree. It was management who messed up hiring. It’s management who should bear the responsibility for it.
  - criemen 1y ago
    How should they do that? I hear that phrase, and it's easy to agree to, but how would it look in practice?
    - janderson215 1y ago
      Stepping down vs mass layoffs reduces headcount by 1/20th, so the only other solution is to continue floundering until everybody loses their job. These people complaining about layoffs would prefer the whole plant to rot versus pruning a few wilting stems.
      - drivebyhooting 1y ago
        I’m not talking about solution. I’m talking about responsibility and aligning incentive. Management should take a painful paycut or resign to demonstrate some contrition.
        janderson215 1y ago
        Agreed on the pay cut - even if temporary - and aligning incentives. Resignation frees them from a chance to correct their missteps. Just making a guess here, but I would think that, in general, good people who actually hold themselves accountable for screwing up understand the situation better than a replacement. Unless there is a pattern, it is probably in the org’s best interest to give that manager a shot at redemption, especially considering the glut of incompetent managers, the learning curve for competent managers, and the likelihood that a replacement would do a better job. If an engineer screws up hugely, do you want get rid of them immediately and find a replacement, or evaluate whether or not they learned a very important and expensive lesson that may happen again with a replacement?
- freedomben 1y ago
  I agree, hence why I think it's shitty. I would like to see accountability for these people. They should be on the layoff chopping block IMHO. But that said, you still have to deal with the situation and move forward. Sunk cost fallacy and all that

drivebyhooting 1y ago

Those people have families and responsibilities. Leadership should take responsibility for their poor planning. Alas, the burden falls on the little guys. Especially in this kind of labor market.

kstrauser 1y ago
Hard agree. It was management who messed up hiring. It’s management who should bear the responsibility for it.
- criemen 1y ago
  How should they do that? I hear that phrase, and it's easy to agree to, but how would it look in practice?
  - janderson215 1y ago
    Stepping down vs mass layoffs reduces headcount by 1/20th, so the only other solution is to continue floundering until everybody loses their job. These people complaining about layoffs would prefer the whole plant to rot versus pruning a few wilting stems.
    - drivebyhooting 1y ago
      I’m not talking about solution. I’m talking about responsibility and aligning incentive. Management should take a painful paycut or resign to demonstrate some contrition.
      - janderson215 1y ago
        Agreed on the pay cut - even if temporary - and aligning incentives. Resignation frees them from a chance to correct their missteps. Just making a guess here, but I would think that, in general, good people who actually hold themselves accountable for screwing up understand the situation better than a replacement. Unless there is a pattern, it is probably in the org’s best interest to give that manager a shot at redemption, especially considering the glut of incompetent managers, the learning curve for competent managers, and the likelihood that a replacement would do a better job. If an engineer screws up hugely, do you want get rid of them immediately and find a replacement, or evaluate whether or not they learned a very important and expensive lesson that may happen again with a replacement?
freedomben 1y ago
I agree, hence why I think it's shitty. I would like to see accountability for these people. They should be on the layoff chopping block IMHO. But that said, you still have to deal with the situation and move forward. Sunk cost fallacy and all that