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PoE is awesome. My custom home security system is all CCTV PoE with a gstreamer backend running on four-core fanless linux box. Way to go. Complete control. No

• skulk 1y ago
  Got any recommendations on what cameras to get? The market is absolutely flooded with cheap shitty cloud-connected all-in-one cameras making it hard to find good, simple products.
  • stargrazer 1y ago
    reolink, also look at the frigate nvr software, they have a list for decent recommendations
    • zer00eyz 1y ago
      This is the way. Reolink cameras are pretty good for what they are. Just dont buy into their NVR solution... Frigate also has some interesting applications to go along with it, see: https://github.com/mmcc-xx/WhosAtMyFeeder https://github.com/mmcc-xx/WhosAtMyFeeder I also have YOLO on my to do list for the home cameras.
      • mkl 1y ago
        What's wrong with their NVRs? I have one connected to some Reolink cameras (though not yet the full house-surrounding setup I have planned) and it seems fine so far.
    • aivisol 1y ago
      Reolink with Synology NAS using their native Surveillance app. All stored locally, no cloud. One issue with Reolink I haven’t solved is that it is unable to detect approaching cars in the night. Departing cars work fine though. Otherwise no complaints.
      • mlrtime 1y ago
        Dont dorget to pay Synology for the extra licenses for more cameras.
        • aivisol 1y ago
          Yes I did pay for extra licenses. I also paid for the cameras to Reolink and disks to WD.
    • stevenhubertron 1y ago
      I’m less happy with Reolink and most of Reolink are now in a drawer. Been a fan of Amcrest and Scrypted.
  • lights0123 1y ago
    Any of those that mention ONVIF or RTSP will do if you put them on a LAN without internet access
    • kalaksi 1y ago
      Not my experience. I've tried several such cameras and most of them are underpowered and suffer from very low fps or are fine when there's no movement but with movement the fps drops drastically essentially making the camera close to useless.
    • ssl-3 1y ago
      Aye. ONVIF is the (now quite old, but still very relevant) standard for interfacing IP cameras locally on a network. A cheap-but-performant ONVIF camera on an isolated VLAN (or a physically-isolated network; I won't tell anyone) can be a thing of beauty that is also completely unable to call home to some mothership in the clown. I'm frankly very surprised that I don't see it mentioned here more often when discussions of cameras arise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONVIF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONVIF
      • mlrtime 1y ago
        ONVIF has it's own problems, like when a NVR require ONVIF and all you have is rtsp. You need to convert somehow. Or ONVIF has a multiple cameras behind a IP, but a crappy ONVIF client only picks one (Unifi Protect).
        • brk 1y ago
          ONVIF and RTSP are different things. ONVIF is a device and services discovery protocol RTSP is a video streaming protocol. ONVIF can be used to discover a camera on a network, query it for its RTSP URL, and facilitate a connection between a client service and the RTSP stream. But you can't stream video via "ONVIF".
        • baby_souffle 1y ago
          I have also found that poor onvif implementations run as root and not as any other user. If you’re sending auth creds, better make sure you have something protecting them on the wire… And profiles. There are many different feature sets in onvif and just because a camera has onvif logo or compatibility doesn’t mean it will play nice with your gear.
  • Cyberdogs7 1y ago
    I have built out several Amcrest systems. You have the many options for recording and access, that will allow remote access without going to the cloud.
  • foobarkey 1y ago
    The cheapest (~15 USD bullet, 20 USD dome) PoE cameras on AliExpress (focal length is pretty much the most important parameter to look at, depending on the fov you want) hooked up to a Unifi NVR. Skip all the vendor manuals, setup steps, and apps - adopt them directly to Unifi Protect. I put them on separate vlan where they get no outbound network connectivity. For cases where you want things like facial detection or license plate detection (automatic doors/gates) get a Unifi AI though and those things cost, but for normal perimeter/room monitoring the cheap ones are very good
    • vulkoingim 1y ago
      I would argue sensor size is what's most impotant to look for in a camera. Have a look at this thread [1] I have bookmarked. I found it quite informative. I already got some cheap cameras and set them up, but I wish I would have found it earlier. The ones I got are 4MP with 1/3" sensor and perform absolutely terribly in night setting. [1] https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/getting-cameras-with-the-right-mp-to-sensor-size-ratio.67642/post-731686 https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/getting-cameras-with-the-right...
    • mlrtime 1y ago
      Thanks! Any specific POE with a good sensor/fl on ali that you recommend? I'm all POE/Protect but would like to play with some cheaper poe cameras.
    • tehlike 1y ago
      I got a bunch of annke dual lenses, put some in their own local only vlan, others waiting to be installed.
  • mlsu 1y ago
    I got a lot of 6 Axis cameras from eBay, it was around $200. I think they took them off a school or something but they were in great shape. They look great and have no spyware etc because it’s an industrial company. I recommend getting some industrial surplus because they tend not to have all the bloatware and have significantly better weatherproofing, casing, etc, even if the optics are the same as the consumer units.
    • bityard 1y ago
      I was under the impression that most commercial/industrial cameras all required some kind of proprietary ecosystem of peripherals and controllers. Do those work with open source DVR solutions like frigate? (If so, did you know that before you bought them?)
      • mlsu 1y ago
        Onvif is the keyword, if it’s supported it works with frigate. I think most of the industrial cams are not as locked down as you might think. They are infrastructure so vendors aren’t going to force customers to tear down their existing setup.
      • bobbob1921 1y ago
        Another method that most cameras support (if you want the bare basics of record video/audio) is accessing an RTSP stream from the camera. In fact RTSP streams are the primary way you get video into frigate specifically. Some of the more fancy cam manufacturers (axis), are just now starting to support encrypted RTSP , but most of it is unencrypted. you can enable authentication, however in general if you’re doing this over the Internet you do it over a VPN via un encrypted rtsp
    • bobbob1921 1y ago
      This! I manage about 70 CCTV cameras, over the past 15 years. Partially as a hobby. and axis cameras are the best bar none. They are expensive, but if you don’t have a need for the latest gen axis, then eBay is your friend, along with one or two generation prior of axis current gen cams. They are just very well thought out in terms of installation, and ui/operation. Axis is among the most responsive to security issues (which mostly can be negated by controlling your cameras at the network level through vlans and firewall rules). They have a very intuitive web based UI, for example one well thought out ability is through events/rules- you can add a physical SD card into the camera and set up a rule that if the video feed is not being accessed ( set a inverse trigger for “live stream accessed”) then start recording to the on-cam SD card (i.e. your NVR has gone off-line or a network issue is stopping the feed, then you have onboard storage saving that video). That’s just one example.
  • skopje 1y ago
    https://www.cctvsecuritypros.com/ https://www.cctvsecuritypros.com/ Blue-line domes, the $240 ones. Four of them. I'd get more but do not know how to make outside routing look neat. i have one bullet and i don't like it and don't use it, i prefer the wide-angle domes with ir.
  • throw0101c 1y ago
    Depending on your paranoia level, there are lists of National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA: i.e., non-Chinese) camera OEMs: * https://www.a1securitycameras.com/blog/non-chinese-security-camera-manufacturers/ https://www.a1securitycameras.com/blog/non-chinese-security-... Some names: Axis, Avigilon, Bosch, Vivotek, Hanwha Techwin (SK), Acti (TW), Motorola, Mobotix.
    • tehlike 1y ago
      With local restricted vlan, it doesn't matter as much, unless they expose a wireless endpoint (wifi or otherwise).
  • craftkiller 1y ago
    I'd recommend checking out "Project Farm" reviews. They do actual tests and comparisons of products rather than the current trend of reading off marketing copy and shilling sponsored products. I've seen some of their reviews on cameras and the difference in clarity across brands is shocking. Not that important if you just want to know "my package was stolen", but very important if you want to read their license plate. Here is one such review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYUY61ZFZAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYUY61ZFZAs
    • bityard 1y ago
      He does a good job at reviewing the cameras themselves but IIRC, all of the cameras he reviewed require cloud connectivity, and many of those clouds are "overseas."
• shadowpho 1y ago
  Poe is great for many things, but it’s not as efficient as direct connection (for both low and high power.)
  • rjdj377dhabsn 1y ago
    Why's that?
    • jansper39 1y ago
      You have to convert the power to 48v and back down to whatever you need on the other end which has losses, plus you have losses over the cable too.
      • rubatuga 1y ago
        Well quite frankly 48V has lower losses than 12V
        • shadowpho 1y ago
          110v -> 48v (long thin cable) -> 12v Versus 110v (long thick cable) -> 12v Top has more conversions and more current running on smaller gauge
    • shadowpho 1y ago
      At higher power the Ethernet drops quite a bit of voltage/power compared to the wiring in your walls. Furthermore 48v vs 110v is double the amperage/more loss on top of that. Then there’s double/sometimes triple conversion (120:48 and then 48:dc; 120:48 and then 48:12, and then 12:dc). Furthermore magnetics are a must on both side of the PoE which also isn’t great. At lower power there’s more circuitry to run and multiple conversions aren’t great compared to a simple cheap flyback. For more technical feel free to check here, although it isn’t quite end to end: https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/204/slva498.pdf https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussion...
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• yardstick 1y ago
  Do you upload events to a remote location? How is your storage box secured against theft? That’s my biggest concern for doing local cctv- if you are robbed, they’ll grab anything that looks of value.
  • skopje 1y ago
    yes that is something you need to decide for yourself i'm ok with it. i push my segments up to an s3 bucket but yes if they find the box before the rsync i lose. oh well. there's much more valuable stuff in the house they'll probably go for first. i suspect junkies aren't that smart.
• dheera 1y ago
  Except when it isn't awesome. There are multiple PoE standards. Passive PoE, active PoE, PoE+, PoE++, PoE+++, 802.11af, 802.11at, 802.foo, blah blah. If they had just stuck with 12VDC and buildings had 12VDC wall sockets everywhere, everything would have been fantastic. I also had a PoE HAT for a RPi that smoked it. Never doing PoE again. 48V and 3.3V electronics probably don't belong within 10cm of each other.
  • buccal 1y ago
    240V AC and 5V DC manage to live close in a charger without problems. Problems with quality does not depend on voltage. I love the concept of PoE with one exception that it requires constant 1W or similar load to work even if it is not needed for low power device.
    • dheera 1y ago
      > 240V AC and 5V DC manage to live close in a charger without problems. I mean, yes and no. My laptop case is at 78VAC to ground right now. It gives the tingles. I don't use my laptop much while plugged in. They all skimp on making proper 3-pronged chargers these days. My desktop has a grounded case and doesn't have this issue. My phone, when plugged into wall AC, the touch screen stops working because the whole phone is at an elevated potential and it messes up the capacitive sensing.
  • varenc 1y ago
    I use a PoE "extractor" to power my RPi over PoE and it works great. The extractor does the negotiation and safely gets the normal 48V PoE power, then converts that to 5V outputted on a USB-C cable that powers the RPi. Extractor also has an Ethernet[1] passthrough port that goes into the RPi as well. A bit basic, but seems relatively error proof. [1] https://x.com/varenc/status/1961587127931867466 https://x.com/varenc/status/1961587127931867466
  • skopje 1y ago
    I never had to know the difference. I have four cctv cams on ~100ft of cat5 each. didn't have to think about it, just plugged them in and they worked.
• benoliver999 1y ago
  What switch do you use? I have PoE wifi APs throughout the house, but I bought an Aruba switch and it's super noisy tbh. Fine for me because it's in the basement, but I couldn't recommend it
  • skopje 1y ago
    some netgear 8-ch poe switch. i don't recall. it's been on and running for about 8 years with no issues, way up near the ceiling of my garage, covered with dust. its plugged into a wrt1900 router i bridged via wifi to my main router.
    • debian3 1y ago
      GS308EP or EPP if you need more power budget. Netgear are hard to beat in terms of reliability/price. They also have a 5 and 16 ports fanless version. I also got an old Juniper EX2200 24ports and replaced the fans with quiet noctua. It run quite hot, better go with Netgear.
  • ssl-3 1y ago
    At one of our offices (it is not a large office), I have a 24-port Netgear POE switch running the show. If it has a fan inside (it may! there's cutouts for fans on the sides of the chassis but I have not looked inside), I've never heard it. It fit the price-performance curve for our needs several years ago when we eventually outgrew the previous Netgear POE switch...that was also apparently fanless, and that I installed in 2007. IIRC, it is a GS724TP. It's running a dozen cameras and some access points, and almost all of the rest of the ports are filled up with computers and printers and other Ethernet stuff. No issues at all to to report so far. (A used enterprise switch with serious fans may be cheaper and/or more featureful and/or more reliable, but do we need that kind of noise at home? We sure don't need it at that small office. I've also installed some fanless Cisco POE switches with big heatsinks (and dual power supplies, each fed from different sources) on some high-dollar projects where ultimate reliability was kind of a big deal, but... sheesh. If one of these installed Netgear switches dies in one of these low-risk environments, I'll just patch things up for now and get a replacement coming under warranty.)
• benhurmarcel 1y ago
  If one of those cameras is outside, did you consider the case of someone plugging in his laptop on that ethernet cable? He'd be on your local network.
  • teddyh 1y ago
    Zero-trust networking.
  • matt-p 1y ago
    You would normally put CCTV on its own vlan for this reason.
    • EvanAnderson 1y ago
      Absolutely. Ideally one with Private VLAN[0] functionality and an upstream router configured to allow the CCTV server to pull video streams from the camera while disallowing any outbound communications from the cameras themselves. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_VLAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_VLAN
  • transpute 1y ago
    MACsec, https://forum.openwrt.org/t/macsec-802-1ae-with-802-1x-eapol-key-management-with-wpa-supplicant/194433 https://forum.openwrt.org/t/macsec-802-1ae-with-802-1x-eapol...
    • bc569a80a344f9c 1y ago
      MACSec is irrelevant for this purpose. MACSec encrypts points to point links, it doesn’t authenticate. That’s what 802.1x is for.
      • RationPhantoms 1y ago
        No it isn't. Most MACsec-capable platforms have a "must-secure" or "should-secure" transmission mode. If the security association isn't completed on a "must-secure" configured port then no traffic is transmitted. One would need access to the pre-shared keys to successfully use the link. Now, could one perform a side-channel attack of the memory on the camera and get access to them? Maybe.