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>It’s just as absurd today as it was in the 60s. Nah. You can argue that the goal "land on the moon" is artificial, but it being artificial doesn't make it fak

>It’s just as absurd today as it was in the 60s. Nah. You can argue that the goal "land on the moon" is artificial, but it being artificial doesn't make it fake or abstract. If you're the first to achieve it then you're the first, and that's it. What does it prove if you're able to repeat it fifty years later? You didn't have to invent anything new (obviously), and you're certainly not learning anything new. Now, if you're not able to repeat it at all, that does say something. But if it takes you a few years longer, well, so what? It's not a race anymore, because it's already been won, by the US of fifty years ago. The winner of the race to Mars is still undecided, though.

Waterluvian 1y ago
It feels arbitrary to decide we can’t have a Space Race 2 (Space Harder) but we have Olympics every two years and Super Bowls and World Series and all that every year. I’ve got to assume I’m misunderstanding the objection because it feels ridiculous to overstir the oxygen over semantics. Do we just need to call it Space Race 2?
- fluoridation 1y ago
  A space race isn't a sport, it's a technological and scientific challenge. You can't invent the same technology twice, unless the idea is completely forgotten. Also unlike sports, space races are massively expensive and it's untenable to forever go from one to the next.
  - eru 1y ago
    Well, you could try to raise the challenge. Eg do it on a limited budget, or establish a permanent base, etc. However I agree that manned space flight is a giant money pit with not much to show for. It should come out of our entertainment budget, not eat into our science budget. If you want to do science in space, go unmanned.
  - jlawson 1y ago
    The space race was not just about inventing, though. It was about doing. You can do the same thing twice, and you can also lose the ability to do something. The ability to do the thing is what is really being maintained and demonstrated. Every country has the technology to go to the moon - it's well established now. But who can actually make it happen? That's a huge organizational, human, financial, industrial challenge. And people do notice when only one country can do it.
    - fluoridation 1y ago
      Yeah, I already covered that when I said that if you're not able to do it at all it does say something. >But who can actually make it happen? That's a huge organizational, human, financial, industrial challenge. And people do notice when only one country can do it. On the other side of the coin, it's such a huge expense just for bragging rights, that for any country it's not worth undertaking. It's much more preferable to just give the appearance that you could totally do it if you wanted to, but you just don't feel like it. I'd argue that the US is currently failing at this, but until anyone else flies a manned mission to the moon, it doesn't say anything.
  - croes 1y ago
    You have to invent the same thing twice because the original tools and materials aren’t used anymore.
    - jcgrillo 1y ago
      And most of the people who actually did it aren't alive anymore. A corollary from some other recent tech news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45649178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45649178
  - anigbrowl 1y ago
    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Dylan16807 1y ago
> What does it prove if you're able to repeat it fifty years later? You didn't have to invent anything new (obviously), and you're certainly not learning anything new. Despite you throwing the word "obviously" at it, that is an extremely untrue claim. Even if we hadn't forgotten a lot of the details, we're solving new engineering challenges with modern material science and manufacturing, and learning a lot of new things about spacecraft design. There is a ton of invention in doing another landing after so long.
- fluoridation 1y ago
  What I said was that you didn't have to invent anything new. And yeah, that is obvious. If you've already figured out how to build a Saturn V, to build a second one you just do the same steps you did for the first one. You don't have to use new techniques just because new ones exist.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    We have lost a bunch of old techniques. But even as stated, I don't think your argument holds up. "What does it prove if you're able to repeat it fifty years later? You didn't have to invent anything new (obviously), and you're certainly not learning anything new." Even if it was technically possible to not invent anything new, that path is not going to be taken. It would be even more expensive and worse in every way. Nobody is going to launch a rocket with just 60s/70s technology ever again. A new moon launch will have lots of invention and learning, and claiming we can still do it does need proof.
    - fluoridation 1y ago
      >We have lost a bunch of old techniques. Like I said, you didn't have to invent anything new. In this case you put yourself in the awkward situation of having to reinvent the wheel by your own incompetence. So if you actually do do it, what have you proven? >It would be even more expensive and worse in every way. Worse and more expensive than what? The only rocket that has flown men to the moon is Saturn V. What exactly are you comparing it to?
croes 1y ago
> You didn't have to invent anything new Yes, you do. https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2015/12/11/how-we-lost-the-ability-to-travel-to-the-moon/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2015/12/11/how-we-lost-th...
- fluoridation 1y ago
  It doesn't make it new just because you've forgotten how to make it.

Waterluvian 1y ago

It feels arbitrary to decide we can’t have a Space Race 2 (Space Harder) but we have Olympics every two years and Super Bowls and World Series and all that every year. I’ve got to assume I’m misunderstanding the objection because it feels ridiculous to overstir the oxygen over semantics. Do we just need to call it Space Race 2?

fluoridation 1y ago
A space race isn't a sport, it's a technological and scientific challenge. You can't invent the same technology twice, unless the idea is completely forgotten. Also unlike sports, space races are massively expensive and it's untenable to forever go from one to the next.
- eru 1y ago
  Well, you could try to raise the challenge. Eg do it on a limited budget, or establish a permanent base, etc. However I agree that manned space flight is a giant money pit with not much to show for. It should come out of our entertainment budget, not eat into our science budget. If you want to do science in space, go unmanned.
- jlawson 1y ago
  The space race was not just about inventing, though. It was about doing. You can do the same thing twice, and you can also lose the ability to do something. The ability to do the thing is what is really being maintained and demonstrated. Every country has the technology to go to the moon - it's well established now. But who can actually make it happen? That's a huge organizational, human, financial, industrial challenge. And people do notice when only one country can do it.
  - fluoridation 1y ago
    Yeah, I already covered that when I said that if you're not able to do it at all it does say something. >But who can actually make it happen? That's a huge organizational, human, financial, industrial challenge. And people do notice when only one country can do it. On the other side of the coin, it's such a huge expense just for bragging rights, that for any country it's not worth undertaking. It's much more preferable to just give the appearance that you could totally do it if you wanted to, but you just don't feel like it. I'd argue that the US is currently failing at this, but until anyone else flies a manned mission to the moon, it doesn't say anything.
- croes 1y ago
  You have to invent the same thing twice because the original tools and materials aren’t used anymore.
  - jcgrillo 1y ago
    And most of the people who actually did it aren't alive anymore. A corollary from some other recent tech news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45649178 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45649178
- anigbrowl 1y ago
  "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."

Dylan16807 1y ago

> What does it prove if you're able to repeat it fifty years later? You didn't have to invent anything new (obviously), and you're certainly not learning anything new. Despite you throwing the word "obviously" at it, that is an extremely untrue claim. Even if we hadn't forgotten a lot of the details, we're solving new engineering challenges with modern material science and manufacturing, and learning a lot of new things about spacecraft design. There is a ton of invention in doing another landing after so long.

fluoridation 1y ago
What I said was that you didn't have to invent anything new. And yeah, that is obvious. If you've already figured out how to build a Saturn V, to build a second one you just do the same steps you did for the first one. You don't have to use new techniques just because new ones exist.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  We have lost a bunch of old techniques. But even as stated, I don't think your argument holds up. "What does it prove if you're able to repeat it fifty years later? You didn't have to invent anything new (obviously), and you're certainly not learning anything new." Even if it was technically possible to not invent anything new, that path is not going to be taken. It would be even more expensive and worse in every way. Nobody is going to launch a rocket with just 60s/70s technology ever again. A new moon launch will have lots of invention and learning, and claiming we can still do it does need proof.
  - fluoridation 1y ago
    >We have lost a bunch of old techniques. Like I said, you didn't have to invent anything new. In this case you put yourself in the awkward situation of having to reinvent the wheel by your own incompetence. So if you actually do do it, what have you proven? >It would be even more expensive and worse in every way. Worse and more expensive than what? The only rocket that has flown men to the moon is Saturn V. What exactly are you comparing it to?

croes 1y ago

> You didn't have to invent anything new Yes, you do. https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2015/12/11/how-we-lost-the-ability-to-travel-to-the-moon/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2015/12/11/how-we-lost-th...

fluoridation 1y ago
It doesn't make it new just because you've forgotten how to make it.