4 ms·

This kind of thing is happening across the government. I think it's become prudent to regard government information outlets as untrustworthy and to ignore them.

This kind of thing is happening across the government. I think it's become prudent to regard government information outlets as untrustworthy and to ignore them. They're stuffed with outright misinformation and/or have been memory-holing actual information.

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
If you generalize this to "government" then you've let them win.
- JohnFen 1y ago
  OK, federal government. Either way, I don't see how paying attention to the credibility of the various data and information sources is letting anybody "win". I'm just trying to ensure that I have the most accurate information possible.
  - bitwize 1y ago
    You're not thinking along the right axis. Government sources are fine if the government hasn't been compromised by a fascist coup.
    - nomel 1y ago
      History (including recent history) says the leanings of political party of the administration in charge are unrelated to how truthful the government communication is. All politicians, and the groups they control/communicate with, can't be easily trusted, since all have very strong personal and group motivations to deceive. Deception of the public is a bipartisan issue because it's an issue of holding/maintaining power.
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > All politicians, and the groups they control/communicate with, can't be easily trusted This is bullshit. The American bureaucracy has been ridiculously reliable as an information source until tight around now. (Same as the British imperial services’ were.) This baseless cynicism is a driver around why we’re losing that. (More specifically, the blog posts being disappeared aren’t impartial data. They’re the historic opinions of the previous FTC chair.)
      - joshstrange 1y ago
        > Deception of the public is a bipartisan issue because it's an issue of holding/maintaining power. And maybe it's because by and large Democrats are completely incompetent when it comes to holding/maintaining power but I cannot remember a time when Democrats were purging information from government websites like we are currently seeing. Saying it's a "bipartisan issue" does not hold water. I'm sure there are instances where Democrats have done something like this (I should make it clear I am not a fan of them, I just find them the lesser of two evils) but nothing on the scale we are currently seeing.
      - Gud 1y ago
        This can’t be generalized beyond the US government, though. I live in Switzerland and have a lot of faith in the Swiss government.
      - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
        > History (including recent history) says the leanings of political party of the administration in charge are unrelated to how truthful the government communication is. If anything, recent history says the exact opposite: truthfulness has absolutely varied historically based on the person in charge. The current person in charge has a record of untruthfulness unrivaled in magnitude by any of his historical predecessors. It isn't even close.
      - wredcoll 1y ago
        Everyone else has already jumped on this post but I cannot stress enough how toxic the mentality "everyone does it" is. Not everyone does it, and people certainly don't do it to the same degree, and when we vote we can actually choose better people. Not perfect. Just better.
      - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
        There's never been a stupider time to believe this. You people will go whoever the Overton window drags you. It's like extremist centrism.
    - GaryBluto 1y ago
      The United States government is authoritarian (and always has been behind the scenes) but I would say the current administration is far from a fascist coup.
  - wredcoll 1y ago
    Because we have elections that affect the government. Very broadly speaking, we do that by electing republicans or democrats. Republicans consistently do things like censor government agencies and attempt to alter history. Democrats do not. Blaming "the government" becomes a way to shield criticism of the actual people doing it which means people are ever so slightly less likely to take appropriate corrective actions. (Saying republicans instead of specific republicans is a bit the same, but there's a certain freedom of association there, if you're currently a republican it means that all of these republican actions are, at minimum, acceptable to you)
    - metalcrow 1y ago
      There was just last month a huge court case involving the YouTube being pressured during the Biden administration to remove COVID "misinformation" which turned out to be true. I don't think this is as cut and try and you want it to be.
      - Krssst 1y ago
        Which one turned out to be true?
      - wredcoll 1y ago
        You are arguing against a claim I did not make. I am not claiming that biden, and the democrats in general, are perfect people who do no wrongs. I'm arguing that, over the last 30+ years of american history, they have consistently done fewer and smaller wrongs.
        metalcrow 1y ago
        "Republicans consistently do things like censor government agencies and attempt to alter history. Democrats do not.". You literally made that exact claim.
        wredcoll 1y ago
        Now explain how asking youtube to stop promoting covid misinfo is either of those things.
nine_zeros 1y ago
This is not a government issue. It is a Republican government issue. Democrat governments don't seem to purge information. Republicans are so infantile that they literally display a picture of an Autopen instead of Biden as President in the historical presidents wall. Republicans are so infantile as to want to erase the reality of slavery. Republicans are so infantile that they want to erase evolution from textbooks. Republicans are so infantile that they want to erase the Jan 6 coup from memory. Republicans are so infantile that they want to erase real jobs data from BLS site. I could go on. But this is a Republican problem. No both-sides here.
- GaryBluto 1y ago
  >No both-sides here. At risk of sounding rude, this entire comment sounds exactly like something you'd see on the top of r/all. January 6 wasn't a coup, as (if I remember correctly) Joe Biden was president for 4 years. I actually welcome the new administration, as they do everything government has always done but are far too incompetent to divert attention away from it. For a notable case of your holy, angelic Democrats doing something less than moral, here is a link about their pressuring of Google: https://thehill.com/opinion/robbys-radar/5521897-google-admits-biden-pressure/ https://thehill.com/opinion/robbys-radar/5521897-google-admi...
  - thomassmith65 1y ago
    January 6 wasn't a coup; it was a failed coup. A successful coup lasts longer than seven hours.
  - nine_zeros 1y ago
    Jan 6 was a brazen attempt at a coup. It was Mike Pence who refused to break the country for the narcissist's demands - which was the only reason Biden could be sweared in. We were very close to a third world level coup thanks to Trump back in 2021. This time around, the call could be in JD Vance's hands - the same person supporting Republicans blocking the swearing in of a house representative. For all the dirty partisan things you point out about democrats, they have never attempted a coup. If you think our country and constitution is worth fighting for, you too will not support coup candidates, pedophiles, unitary executives, and separation of church and state. As it stands, if you support republicans, you are against the above principles, regardless of your whataboutism.

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago

If you generalize this to "government" then you've let them win.

JohnFen 1y ago
OK, federal government. Either way, I don't see how paying attention to the credibility of the various data and information sources is letting anybody "win". I'm just trying to ensure that I have the most accurate information possible.
- bitwize 1y ago
  You're not thinking along the right axis. Government sources are fine if the government hasn't been compromised by a fascist coup.
  - nomel 1y ago
    History (including recent history) says the leanings of political party of the administration in charge are unrelated to how truthful the government communication is. All politicians, and the groups they control/communicate with, can't be easily trusted, since all have very strong personal and group motivations to deceive. Deception of the public is a bipartisan issue because it's an issue of holding/maintaining power.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > All politicians, and the groups they control/communicate with, can't be easily trusted This is bullshit. The American bureaucracy has been ridiculously reliable as an information source until tight around now. (Same as the British imperial services’ were.) This baseless cynicism is a driver around why we’re losing that. (More specifically, the blog posts being disappeared aren’t impartial data. They’re the historic opinions of the previous FTC chair.)
    - joshstrange 1y ago
      > Deception of the public is a bipartisan issue because it's an issue of holding/maintaining power. And maybe it's because by and large Democrats are completely incompetent when it comes to holding/maintaining power but I cannot remember a time when Democrats were purging information from government websites like we are currently seeing. Saying it's a "bipartisan issue" does not hold water. I'm sure there are instances where Democrats have done something like this (I should make it clear I am not a fan of them, I just find them the lesser of two evils) but nothing on the scale we are currently seeing.
    - Gud 1y ago
      This can’t be generalized beyond the US government, though. I live in Switzerland and have a lot of faith in the Swiss government.
    - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
      > History (including recent history) says the leanings of political party of the administration in charge are unrelated to how truthful the government communication is. If anything, recent history says the exact opposite: truthfulness has absolutely varied historically based on the person in charge. The current person in charge has a record of untruthfulness unrivaled in magnitude by any of his historical predecessors. It isn't even close.
    - wredcoll 1y ago
      Everyone else has already jumped on this post but I cannot stress enough how toxic the mentality "everyone does it" is. Not everyone does it, and people certainly don't do it to the same degree, and when we vote we can actually choose better people. Not perfect. Just better.
    - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
      There's never been a stupider time to believe this. You people will go whoever the Overton window drags you. It's like extremist centrism.
  - GaryBluto 1y ago
    The United States government is authoritarian (and always has been behind the scenes) but I would say the current administration is far from a fascist coup.
- wredcoll 1y ago
  Because we have elections that affect the government. Very broadly speaking, we do that by electing republicans or democrats. Republicans consistently do things like censor government agencies and attempt to alter history. Democrats do not. Blaming "the government" becomes a way to shield criticism of the actual people doing it which means people are ever so slightly less likely to take appropriate corrective actions. (Saying republicans instead of specific republicans is a bit the same, but there's a certain freedom of association there, if you're currently a republican it means that all of these republican actions are, at minimum, acceptable to you)
  - metalcrow 1y ago
    There was just last month a huge court case involving the YouTube being pressured during the Biden administration to remove COVID "misinformation" which turned out to be true. I don't think this is as cut and try and you want it to be.
    - Krssst 1y ago
      Which one turned out to be true?
    - wredcoll 1y ago
      You are arguing against a claim I did not make. I am not claiming that biden, and the democrats in general, are perfect people who do no wrongs. I'm arguing that, over the last 30+ years of american history, they have consistently done fewer and smaller wrongs.
      - metalcrow 1y ago
        "Republicans consistently do things like censor government agencies and attempt to alter history. Democrats do not.". You literally made that exact claim.
        wredcoll 1y ago
        Now explain how asking youtube to stop promoting covid misinfo is either of those things.

nine_zeros 1y ago

This is not a government issue. It is a Republican government issue. Democrat governments don't seem to purge information. Republicans are so infantile that they literally display a picture of an Autopen instead of Biden as President in the historical presidents wall. Republicans are so infantile as to want to erase the reality of slavery. Republicans are so infantile that they want to erase evolution from textbooks. Republicans are so infantile that they want to erase the Jan 6 coup from memory. Republicans are so infantile that they want to erase real jobs data from BLS site. I could go on. But this is a Republican problem. No both-sides here.

GaryBluto 1y ago
>No both-sides here. At risk of sounding rude, this entire comment sounds exactly like something you'd see on the top of r/all. January 6 wasn't a coup, as (if I remember correctly) Joe Biden was president for 4 years. I actually welcome the new administration, as they do everything government has always done but are far too incompetent to divert attention away from it. For a notable case of your holy, angelic Democrats doing something less than moral, here is a link about their pressuring of Google: https://thehill.com/opinion/robbys-radar/5521897-google-admits-biden-pressure/ https://thehill.com/opinion/robbys-radar/5521897-google-admi...
- thomassmith65 1y ago
  January 6 wasn't a coup; it was a failed coup. A successful coup lasts longer than seven hours.
- nine_zeros 1y ago
  Jan 6 was a brazen attempt at a coup. It was Mike Pence who refused to break the country for the narcissist's demands - which was the only reason Biden could be sweared in. We were very close to a third world level coup thanks to Trump back in 2021. This time around, the call could be in JD Vance's hands - the same person supporting Republicans blocking the swearing in of a house representative. For all the dirty partisan things you point out about democrats, they have never attempted a coup. If you think our country and constitution is worth fighting for, you too will not support coup candidates, pedophiles, unitary executives, and separation of church and state. As it stands, if you support republicans, you are against the above principles, regardless of your whataboutism.