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by everdrive 1y ago
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- hasmolo 1y agolook it's a straw man!
- mlyle 1y agoBut it's not, really. Machines doing stuff instead of humans is great as long as it serves some kind of human purpose. If it lets humans do more human things as a result and have purpose, great. If it supplants things humans value, in the name of some kind of efficiency that isn't serving very many of us at all, that's not so great.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- SJC_Hacker 1y agoIt does serve a human purpose, for the ownership class, not for the laborers
- pessimizer 1y agoFirst I've heard that wives aren't human.
- hasmolo 1y agosure, but no one is making love to their wife so they can feed and house their family. work is not something most people do for pleasure, it is forced on them. this is a clear misrepresentation to frame the argument as stupid, the literal definition of a straw man argument.
- rapatel0 1y agoIf robots are a better partner, then maybe your are not that great a partner...
- sssilver 1y agoNot necessarily, it’s either that, or the robots are so good it’s unattainable by the imperfect human flesh.
- lwhi 1y agoIf robots are better partner, then maybe you no longer understand what it means to be human.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y agoAnother interesting point: If someone think that robots can be a better partner, then you also no longer understand what it means to be human. Maybe it depends on what you want in a relationships. AI is sycophantic and that could help people who might have trust issues with humans in general or the other sex (which is happening way more than you might think in younger generations, whether that's involuntary celebates or whatever) I don't blame people for having trust issues but the fact that they can live longer in some idea of a false hope that robots are partners would just make them stuck even longer and wouldn't help them. Should there be regulations on this thing depends if this becomes a bigger issue but most people including myself feel like govt. shouldn't intervene in many things but still. I don't think its happening any time soon since AI big tech money and stock markets are so bedded together its wild.
- lwhi 1y agoI really don't buy the idea of AI helping with 'X' issue, by becoming a surrogate, because at it's root this is still avoidance. It's not solving the problem, it's diverging away from it.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y agoThat is what I wrote if I wasn't clear. Thanks for putting it in clear words I suppose I 100% agree. I mean that was what I was trying to convey I guess if I didn't get side tracked thinking about govt regulation but yeah I agree completely. It's sort of self sabotage but hey one thing I have come to know about humans is that judging them for things is gonna push them even further into us vs them, we need to know the reasons behind why people feel so easy to conform to llm's. I guess sycophancy is the idea. People want to know that they are right and the world is wrong and most people sometimes don't give a fuck about other problems and if they do, then they try to help and that can involve pointing to reality. AI just delays it by saying something sycophantic which drives a person even further into the hole. I guess we need to understand them. Its become a reality dude, there are people already marrying chatbots or what not, I know you must have heard of these stories... We are not talking about something in the distinct future, its happening as we speak I think the answer to why is desperation. There are so many things broken in the society in dating that young people feel like being alone is better and chatbots to satisfy whatever they are feeling. I feel like some people think they deserve love and there's nothing wrong with that but then its also at the same time that you can't expect any person to just love you at the same time, they are right in thinking about themselves too. So those people who feel like they deserve love flock to chatbot which showers them sycophancy and fake love but people are down bad for fake love as well, they will chase anything that resembles love, even if its a chatbot. Its a societal problem I suppose, maybe internet fueled it accidentally because we fall in love with people over just texts so we have equated a person to texts and thus love, and now we have got clankers writing texts and fellow humans intrepreting it as love. Honestly, I don't blame them but I sympathesize with them. They just need someone to tell their day to. Underputting them isn't the answer but talking with them and asking them to take professional therapy as well in the process could be great but so many people can't afford therapy that they go to LLM's so that's definitely something. We might need to invest some funding to make therapy more accessible for everybody I guess.
- riversflow 1y agoWhat a non-sequitar. Your wife is an adult human being. Sex is a consensual act. Not really comparable to trading time and labor for currency.
- avmich 1y agoBoth job and sex are rather common and desired, so some comparison can be made.
- thekevan 1y agoYour marriage is a decision between you and your spouse and is a mutual decision. A job is a decision that your boss(es) made and can be taken without your consent. You don't have the ownership of your job that you do of your marriage.
- recursivegirth 1y agoBoth marriage and job contracts are mutually binding legal agreements. You have the agency within those dynamics that the law gives you, which varies by region/jurisdiction respectively. Your partner in some (most?) cases can absolutely make an executive decision that ends your marriage, with you having no options but to accept the outcome. Your argument falls a little flat.
- great_wubwub 1y agoI'm not sure where you live, but employee contracts in the US are very rare in tech. Unions, execs, and rock stars - that's about it. The rest of us are at-will and disposable. Worker protections in the US are limited to "the machine can't eat more than two of your fingers per day" and "you can't work people more than 168 hours in a week".
- EgregiousCube 1y agoWhen you sign your offer letter, you're entering into an employment contract. What you're describing is regulatory limitations on what that contract can say, and how different contracts can have different terms.
- onraglanroad 1y agoNow from what you've said I think they might be right. You don't get a full contract that you sign that details your job, leave entitlement etc in the US?
- EgregiousCube 1y ago
- xethos 1y ago"But that ignores why you have sex with your wife: for bonding, physical affection, and pregnancy" Sure, but we're also putting aside how people do worse without a sense of purpose or contribution, and semi-forced interaction is generally good for people as practice getting along with others - doubly so as we withdraw into the internet and our smartphones
- warent 1y agoEquating “business” to “profound human intimacy” might be one of the most HackerNews comments of all time
- igor47 1y agoJobs aren't just business. Humans derive a lot of meaning from being useful and valued.
- warent 1y agoYou’re right and validating the point. A specific part of GP’s comment keeps getting overlooked: So the problem isn't robots, it's the structure of how we humans rely on jobs for income. Humans being forced to trade time for survival, money, and the enrichment of the elite, is a bug. We are socially conditioned to believe it’s a feature and the purpose. Nobody is saying robots should replace human connection and expression Edit: tone
- beeflet 1y agoIt is not a bug, it is a law of nature. The world has limited resources, time and labor being one of them. The technology proposes a source of labor for the elites so abundant that they will not need to trade their wealth with the eaters. However much resources you consume, it will be too much to buy for your labor. You will be priced out of existence.
- warent 1y agoElites unilaterally claiming and reaping the benefits of automation (i.e. consolidation of wealth) is not a law of nature.
- jimnotgym 1y agoYet the elite won't share that benefit until someone makes them. History makes me think that won't happen until hunger motivates the masses from their apathy.
- soganess 1y agoHonestly, from what I understand, most men’s relationship to “lovemaking” isn’t exactly winning awards. Plus, if the tables were turned, I’m sure some SV types would just call it “rational” or “logical” and magically develop nuanced yet expansive understandings of consent, autonomy, and ownership (“your wife”) overnight. Assuming the Everdrive is M and the SNES cartridge port is F, I can understand why the Everclan men are particularly attuned to this topic. Many better-quality, more feature-rich, and cheaper SNES multicarts have hit the market; the Everdrive is looking dated.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- gnarlouse 1y ago“Robots are coming” I see what you did there
- AfterHIA 1y agoI wonder if the AI can teach you how to use commas correctly.
- amarant 1y agoI mean, she already has 3 tiny pink little robots designed specifically for the purpose. This isn't exactly news
- boogieknite 1y ago"this guy fucks" - Russ Hannamen, HBO's Silicon Valley surprised to see this so far down. if a robot can fuck better, then we would probably both have fun fucking robots together
- amarant 1y agoIndeed! And "it might lead to better dildos" is genuinely the weirdest argument against AI I've heard so far.
- OJFord 1y agoIf your wife would rather leave you for a robot (or otherwise) then, err, yeah? That's not new with AI or robots or anything?
- beeflet 1y agoYou're correct that it is not new. Most people outside of hacker news are opposed to being cuckolded in their romantic relationships and automated out of their jobs.
- pessimizer 1y agoExtremely weird comment. But no, you don't own your job or your wife. If robots are better than you, she should leave you and we should all be happy for her. The problem is a culture that doesn't think the profit from productivity gains should be distributed to labor (or consumers), and doesn't think that wives deserve to be happy.
- thelastgallon 1y agoThe missing piece is the material science advances to get the 100% fidelity mouth/etc feel. Once we have that breakthrough, all men will just buy those devices (and video games) and chill. No need for any of these questionable biological services (marriage, etc) with no guarantee and a whole lot of heartache. Any company that solves this problem will be a $10T company.
- rpcope1 1y agoThat will also likely be the very end of our society as we know it. If you thought TFR was in the shitter today, having robot prostitutes (because let's be real, that's what you're suggesting) will not only probably grant a select few some unreal control over many, but will be the end of any society dumb enough to permit it entirely.
- brookst 1y agoWell that analogy of sex with one’s spouse being equivalent to the economic exchange of work for pay is going to keep me cringing for years. Ugh.
- raincole 1y agoIt's actually an extremely good analogy (but in the opposite way of what you imply), as you don't own your job or your wife. Banning AI for job security is like banning dildos because they make men feel insecure.
- atleastoptimal 1y agoThere's a difference in scale and potential consequences though What if there were some robot with superhuman persuasion and means of manipulating human urges such that, if it wanted to, it could entrap anyone it wanted to complete subservience? Should we happily acquiesce to the emerging cult-like influence these new entities have on susceptible humans? What if your parents messaged you one day, homeless on the street because they gave all their money and assets to a scammer robot that via a 300IQ understanding of human psychology manipulated them to sending all their money in a series of wire transfers?
- lucas_v 1y ago> superhuman persuasion and means of manipulating human urges such that, if it wanted to, it could entrap anyone it wanted to complete subservience Wow this potential/theoretical danger sounds a lot like the already existent attention economy; we're already manipulated at scale by "superhuman" algorithms designed to hijack our "human urges," create "cult-like" echo chambers, and sell us things 24/7. That future is already here
- atleastoptimal 1y agoWhich is true. People are scammed by very low-quality schemes (like that French woman who sent 1 million to the scammers who claimed to be Brad Pitt who for some reason needed money for medical procedures). Humans have generally a natural wariness/mental immune system response to these things however, and for 99% of people the attention economy is far from being able to completely upend their life or send all their money in an agreement made in bad faith by the other party. I don't see why, if some AI were to possess persuasion powers to a superhuman degree, would be able to cause 100x the damage when directed at the right marks.
- mock-possum 1y agoThis, only unironically Besides, in this fantasy, what’s to stop you from having the perfect robot lover as well - why are you so attached to this human wife of yours in the first place?
- jarjoura 1y agoHah. You say this in such a way that you leave out the possibility that robots are actually just coming for you. Robots can do you, better and/or faster than your partner. Who cares if they're coming for your partner if you can equally have a robot make you feel and experience things you could only imagine.
- zwnow 1y agoLeast gooner take on here
- _zagj 1y agoGiven the overlap between reddit and HN ("Orange Reddit"), using cuckolding as a negative point of comparison probably wasn't the best choice.
- rpcope1 1y agoHonestly reading the comments in this thread has convinced me that you're right that the blight between the two is nearly one in the same.
- kristianc 1y ago> If robots can do your wife better and/or faster, they should be the ones doing the job. Skill issue.
- rpcope1 1y agoI'm unsure if the comparison to more standard automation is totally apt (but agree if you rob people of purpose which many get from their jobs, lots and lots of bad shit happens), but what you're poking at is frankly nightmare fuel. Look how much chatbots that are in sycophantic "romantic relationships" absolutely break people (there was some subreddit linked once recently full of these types), and consider what happens when they're actually manifested. I'm sure some lolbert types will be like "but muh freedoms", but that sort of shit is so dangerous and so destructive on the same way brown glass bottles are to Australian jewel beetles, that we damn well better crush any of that and anyone that proposes producing robots like that. They're basically weapons and should be treated as such.
- giancarlostoro 1y agoYou know that episode where Fry dates the robot, and they show him a really old PSA? Man, I never thought that it was within my lifetime.
- nakamoto_damacy 1y agoI will pay big money to see you do standup comedy. You made my day. LOL.
- DiggyJohnson 1y agoEven though I disagree with this extension, I do think it’s an interesting and completely valid metaphor for your point. How would we handle regulating sex bots? Complete ban on manufacturing and import of full size humanoid bots? They are large enough that it could be partially effective I guess. I’m imagining two dudes in a shady meetup for a black market sale of sex bot which is kinda funny but also scary because the future is coming fast. Or in this case, a husband having police investigate and apprehend the wife in the act? Crazy times.
- GTP 1y agoNot sure how much I agree with your counterargument, but I found it very funny :D
- socalgal2 1y agoSorry to inform you this but there are plenty of people in the world who could "do your wife better". She "chooses" at all times to be with you instead of those other people as those other people are just a choice away. She did not need some regulation to prevent her from doing so.
- sbochins 1y agoSex is different from work. And you don’t have unilateral control over who anyone else has sex with. But, you do have say over how the government deals with the AI revolution.
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y agoDude, I’m glad you like your job, but most people fucking hate their job.
- mmaunder 1y agoWhen you objectify the idea of wife as an NPC and you’re the center of your universe, this makes sense. Pretty sure my wife would take a baseball bat to the motherfucker’s robot brain. But it’s her call. Others may prefer a non human companion. And let’s all work to keep the government out of our bedrooms, shall we? We all know how well that’s been going. When you equate sex with garbage collection, you have bigger problems than our AI future.