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New Zealand PM requests inquiry into illegal Megaupload wire tapping

181 points by polemic 14y ago

Gustomaximus 14y ago
And just as importantly: "Mr Key says he has also asked the Inspector-General to recommend any measures he considered necessary to prevent the issue from happening again."
- lostlogin 14y ago
  As this government would do absolutely anything to get closer to the US, I suspect you're not right. Even the previous government tried fairly hard (troops to Afghanistan for example), but this time it's shameless.
  - lostlogin 14y ago
    Sorry, terrible phrasing, and I can't seem to edit it. >>As this government would do absolutely anything to get closer to the US, I suspect nothing will come of any investigation. Even the previous government tried fairly hard (troops to Afghanistan for example), but this governments pandering is shameless. The Dotcom case being a prime example.<<
jordanthoms 14y ago
Makes me proud to be a kiwi. Aside from the initial raid, I think the systems have held up well despite lots of 'international pressure'
- baconhigh 14y ago
  really? NZ should never have gone along with it - just trying to please the US.
  - veb 14y ago
    That's what I hate about my country right now. We're seemingly bending over to all the whims of the US. Not cool. We're supposed to be independent little hobbits, not getting in the affairs of things that don't concern us.
    - brendonjohn 14y ago
      I found the John Campbell interview the hardest to watch. after most of his interview he hits him with "...are you a very a naughty man?"
- mattdw 14y ago
  Aside from the initial raid, and the illegal surveillance, and the invalid warrants, and the illegal seizure of evidence. Sure.
- dekz 14y ago
  Unlawful actions make you proud to be a Kiwi? This whole ordeal reminds me of the BP oil spill, sure they'll help clean up, but lets not ignore what lead us to this situation in the first place.
  - lancewiggs 14y ago
    Yes - it's similar to after the Rainbow Warrior bombing. The French were able to perpetrate a terrorist act, but they were comprehensively caught amidst a sense of nationwide outrage. The copyright lobby and elements of the USG were able to apply to pressure to a few individuals, but after the back helicopters that sense of outrage and strong internal systems are kicking in hard.
    - lostlogin 14y ago
      I like your comparison, but it doesn't quite work, as New Zealanders actually did the door kicking dirty work. But another parallel is sure to emerge - those who were/are responsible, get a slap over the wrist. I hope the footnotes to the Ranbow Warrior saga dont pan out - The Rainbow Warrior bombers who committed murder were basically treated as heroes and given medals once home - while France savaged New Zealand industry as some kind of punishment.
dendory 14y ago
The sad thing isn't that we found out they used an illegal warrant, they had suspicious motives, or used illegal wiretapping, but that this comes out purely because this is such a public case. Just think if so much shady business goes on in a case they know will be high profile, how widespread and commonplace these practices must be all around. How many other cases we won't ever hear about because they aren't so scrutinized? Are we yet at a place where officers breaking the law is so commonplace they just don't care or even think about it anymore? Is going by the book something we tell children about, but we all know it never happens?
- mattdw 14y ago
  See also MP John Banks' “I can only help you if your donations to me are anonymous” to Dotcom. This case is making public a whole lot of what looks like routine corruption.
  - veb 14y ago
    Yet NZ is supposed to have next to no corruption. OK... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
    - belorn 14y ago
      Same goes for Sweden with their totally non-corrupt investigator who just happen to get a high paying job from one of the parties days after the case.
    - lostlogin 14y ago
      It's funny. I know of numerous cases of borderline corruption here. They may be legit, but they sure as hell run close to the line. I struggle to imaging what happens in a country considered to be 'actually corrupt'.
    - RachelF 14y ago
      Same goes for Australia, there's a high level of corruption in the form of donations to politicians.
ihsw 14y ago
It seems 'Democracy' will be coming to NZ soon.
- davidw 14y ago
  What are you talking about? New Zealand has a flourishing democracy. Or is this supposed to be some kind of hip/ironic comment suggesting... what, that the US is going to invade NZ? This is an example of why political articles foster commentary that is... less than stellar.
  - ihsw 14y ago
    The US sphere of influence is very well maintained and the US Government will not tolerate deviation, it would be surprising to not see diplomatic pressure applied onto New Zealand. The US may not invade NZ in the sense you're thinking but NZ going to get the US Government's attention (which is rarely a good thing).
    - davidw 14y ago
      New Zealand has certainly 'deviated' in the past: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand%27s_nuclear-free_zone#Nuclear-free_zone_legislation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand%27s_nuclear-free_zo... Copyright stuff is small potatoes compared to the US Navy. And yet... they didn't get invaded, did they? Hand waving makes for poor, ill-informed debate.
    - sageikosa 14y ago
      Given that New Zealand scoffed at allowing US nuclear powered vessels to harbor at their ports, it is unlikely that anything short of direct military intervention will sway the New Zealand attitude. Any politician who is seen appeasing the US would likely answer to the electorate in the next cycle.
      - lostlogin 14y ago
        Sort of. Please excuse the excess of history if you are familiar with it. Prior to changing their leader, the National party (who now govern NZ) leader said to an American senator that our nuclear policy would be 'gone by lunchtime' if the National party got into power. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10008905 It did and Brash was elected, but Brash has somewhat cooked his goose since then. The pressure from the US remains however, and the law remains unchanged. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836045 Edit: spelling
Matsta 14y ago
Meh, nothing is going to happen. We'll probably never hear the results of the outcome of the inquiry. If NZ Police are involved, they'll just take their sweet merry time until we all forget about it and then move onto something else.
- polemic 14y ago
  It's performed by "The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security", a DoJ appointment who must have been a High Court judge, and who has complete access to the documents, premises and staff of the NZSIS and GCSB. So, there is some hope!
stfu 14y ago
It is great to see that there are still "somewhere" in the world high level politicians who take these kind of things seriously. Judging by the coziness of the US administration with the Entertainment industry and its lacking willingness to clean up issues such as the Fast and Furious/AFT gunwalking scandal, I very much doubt that this would have happened in the US.
- mattdw 14y ago
  It's worth noting that in NZ, the Prime Minister is also the Minister overseeing the GCSB. He has to sign off on all surveillance warrants, too. So at the very least it's a huge and public failure in his department; at the worst, he's complicit in illegal surveillance. It's yet to be seen what his involvement is, but his whole involvement in this case has reeked of ass-covering and distancing. It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this inquiry.
  - caf 14y ago
    As Sir Humphrey Appleby says, never hold an inquiry unless you know what its outcome will be.
  - rjd 14y ago
    If you read this article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836179 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&obj... he specifically states "Prime Minister John Key has revealed the GCSB was acting without his sign-off".
- stewartbutler 14y ago
  Check your facts, please. ATF has its own share of assholes, but from personal experience I'm inclined to attribute its failings to incompetence in upper ranks rather than malice. http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?hpt=hp_t2 http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-fu...
oreilly 14y ago
A lot more information on this can be found in the NZ Herald (Major newspaper) here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836179 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&obj...
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

181 points by polemic 14y ago

And just as importantly: "Mr Key says he has also asked the Inspector-General to recommend any measures he considered necessary to prevent the issue from happening again."

lostlogin 14y ago
As this government would do absolutely anything to get closer to the US, I suspect you're not right. Even the previous government tried fairly hard (troops to Afghanistan for example), but this time it's shameless.
- lostlogin 14y ago
  Sorry, terrible phrasing, and I can't seem to edit it. >>As this government would do absolutely anything to get closer to the US, I suspect nothing will come of any investigation. Even the previous government tried fairly hard (troops to Afghanistan for example), but this governments pandering is shameless. The Dotcom case being a prime example.<<

jordanthoms 14y ago

Makes me proud to be a kiwi. Aside from the initial raid, I think the systems have held up well despite lots of 'international pressure'

baconhigh 14y ago
really? NZ should never have gone along with it - just trying to please the US.
- veb 14y ago
  That's what I hate about my country right now. We're seemingly bending over to all the whims of the US. Not cool. We're supposed to be independent little hobbits, not getting in the affairs of things that don't concern us.
  - brendonjohn 14y ago
    I found the John Campbell interview the hardest to watch. after most of his interview he hits him with "...are you a very a naughty man?"
mattdw 14y ago
Aside from the initial raid, and the illegal surveillance, and the invalid warrants, and the illegal seizure of evidence. Sure.
dekz 14y ago
Unlawful actions make you proud to be a Kiwi? This whole ordeal reminds me of the BP oil spill, sure they'll help clean up, but lets not ignore what lead us to this situation in the first place.
- lancewiggs 14y ago
  Yes - it's similar to after the Rainbow Warrior bombing. The French were able to perpetrate a terrorist act, but they were comprehensively caught amidst a sense of nationwide outrage. The copyright lobby and elements of the USG were able to apply to pressure to a few individuals, but after the back helicopters that sense of outrage and strong internal systems are kicking in hard.
  - lostlogin 14y ago
    I like your comparison, but it doesn't quite work, as New Zealanders actually did the door kicking dirty work. But another parallel is sure to emerge - those who were/are responsible, get a slap over the wrist. I hope the footnotes to the Ranbow Warrior saga dont pan out - The Rainbow Warrior bombers who committed murder were basically treated as heroes and given medals once home - while France savaged New Zealand industry as some kind of punishment.

dendory 14y ago

The sad thing isn't that we found out they used an illegal warrant, they had suspicious motives, or used illegal wiretapping, but that this comes out purely because this is such a public case. Just think if so much shady business goes on in a case they know will be high profile, how widespread and commonplace these practices must be all around. How many other cases we won't ever hear about because they aren't so scrutinized? Are we yet at a place where officers breaking the law is so commonplace they just don't care or even think about it anymore? Is going by the book something we tell children about, but we all know it never happens?

mattdw 14y ago
See also MP John Banks' “I can only help you if your donations to me are anonymous” to Dotcom. This case is making public a whole lot of what looks like routine corruption.
- veb 14y ago
  Yet NZ is supposed to have next to no corruption. OK... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
  - belorn 14y ago
    Same goes for Sweden with their totally non-corrupt investigator who just happen to get a high paying job from one of the parties days after the case.
  - lostlogin 14y ago
    It's funny. I know of numerous cases of borderline corruption here. They may be legit, but they sure as hell run close to the line. I struggle to imaging what happens in a country considered to be 'actually corrupt'.
  - RachelF 14y ago
    Same goes for Australia, there's a high level of corruption in the form of donations to politicians.

ihsw 14y ago

It seems 'Democracy' will be coming to NZ soon.

davidw 14y ago
What are you talking about? New Zealand has a flourishing democracy. Or is this supposed to be some kind of hip/ironic comment suggesting... what, that the US is going to invade NZ? This is an example of why political articles foster commentary that is... less than stellar.
- ihsw 14y ago
  The US sphere of influence is very well maintained and the US Government will not tolerate deviation, it would be surprising to not see diplomatic pressure applied onto New Zealand. The US may not invade NZ in the sense you're thinking but NZ going to get the US Government's attention (which is rarely a good thing).
  - davidw 14y ago
    New Zealand has certainly 'deviated' in the past: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand%27s_nuclear-free_zone#Nuclear-free_zone_legislation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand%27s_nuclear-free_zo... Copyright stuff is small potatoes compared to the US Navy. And yet... they didn't get invaded, did they? Hand waving makes for poor, ill-informed debate.
  - sageikosa 14y ago
    Given that New Zealand scoffed at allowing US nuclear powered vessels to harbor at their ports, it is unlikely that anything short of direct military intervention will sway the New Zealand attitude. Any politician who is seen appeasing the US would likely answer to the electorate in the next cycle.
    - lostlogin 14y ago
      Sort of. Please excuse the excess of history if you are familiar with it. Prior to changing their leader, the National party (who now govern NZ) leader said to an American senator that our nuclear policy would be 'gone by lunchtime' if the National party got into power. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10008905 It did and Brash was elected, but Brash has somewhat cooked his goose since then. The pressure from the US remains however, and the law remains unchanged. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836045 Edit: spelling

Matsta 14y ago

Meh, nothing is going to happen. We'll probably never hear the results of the outcome of the inquiry. If NZ Police are involved, they'll just take their sweet merry time until we all forget about it and then move onto something else.

polemic 14y ago
It's performed by "The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security", a DoJ appointment who must have been a High Court judge, and who has complete access to the documents, premises and staff of the NZSIS and GCSB. So, there is some hope!

stfu 14y ago

It is great to see that there are still "somewhere" in the world high level politicians who take these kind of things seriously. Judging by the coziness of the US administration with the Entertainment industry and its lacking willingness to clean up issues such as the Fast and Furious/AFT gunwalking scandal, I very much doubt that this would have happened in the US.

mattdw 14y ago
It's worth noting that in NZ, the Prime Minister is also the Minister overseeing the GCSB. He has to sign off on all surveillance warrants, too. So at the very least it's a huge and public failure in his department; at the worst, he's complicit in illegal surveillance. It's yet to be seen what his involvement is, but his whole involvement in this case has reeked of ass-covering and distancing. It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this inquiry.
- caf 14y ago
  As Sir Humphrey Appleby says, never hold an inquiry unless you know what its outcome will be.
- rjd 14y ago
  If you read this article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836179 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&obj... he specifically states "Prime Minister John Key has revealed the GCSB was acting without his sign-off".
stewartbutler 14y ago
Check your facts, please. ATF has its own share of assholes, but from personal experience I'm inclined to attribute its failings to incompetence in upper ranks rather than malice. http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?hpt=hp_t2 http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-fu...

oreilly 14y ago

A lot more information on this can be found in the NZ Herald (Major newspaper) here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10836179 http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&obj...

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]