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I care less about how they fix the problem and more about that the problem is fixed. SF has gone dramatically downhill. I remember what it used to be like, a l

by JCM9 1y ago

I care less about how they fix the problem and more about that the problem is fixed. SF has gone dramatically downhill. I remember what it used to be like, a lovely city. Walking around SF now is depressing.

saubeidl 1y ago
The problem is massive inequality putting people on the streets, driven by people like Mr. Benioff.
ajross 1y ago
> I care less about how they fix the problem That's the logic that got Benioff in trouble. FWIW: people like you have to realize that the Guard is not and has never been a law enforcement apparatus. The policy goal of "sending in the troops" to US cities is not and has never been crime (the metrics for which are getting better and not worse, yes even in SF). The goal of putting military force in charge of directing civilians on city streets is and has always been giving the President, who commands that military, direct control over city streets. Right now if the white house doesn't like a protest or doesn't want it to happen, there's nothing they can do bureaucratically using their executive power to prevent it. It's a local thing. If the guard is already there waiting for orders, they can. It sounds like hyperbole, but it's really not: the transparent purpose to this big National Guard kerfuffle is the military suppression of dissent at the direction of the President.
- g-b-r 1y ago
  I think it's for many more things than suppression of protests
- RickJWagner 1y ago
  Please provide a source that suggests Trump has suppressed a protest or something similar.
  - ajross 1y ago
    Seriously? It was widely reported that he attempted exactly that during the Floyd protests in 2020 (first link I got, but Esper's testimony was reported everywhere, pick your preferred media, or just find and watch the committee hearing): https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-defense-secretary https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-d... That time it failed because the pentagon leadership and generals stood in unison against it and he backed down. The guardrails have been rejiggered this time and it's only the courts that protect us now.
- intalentive 1y ago
  Gov. Hochul deployed the National Guard to New York subways last year.
  - ajross 1y ago
    The governor of New York state has the legal ability to do that. The president of the United States does not (currently). My point is that you need to ask *why* the White House suddenly wants this power that heretofore we've been happy leaving with local governments. And the answer, very transparently, isn't crime.
gitonup 1y ago
It boggles my Detroit-grown mind that so many people claim this about so many thriving cities. I live in the PNW and regularly visit most of the major cities there and in NorCal. What exactly is more depressing there than any other city of any economic relevance in the nation?
saulpw 1y ago
The end justifies the means, right? Maybe SF should go all Singapore and execute people for pooping on the sidewalk, problem of sidewalk-pooping will soon be solved!
- southwindcg 1y ago
  A Fox News talking head literally said this recently, but had to apologize for saying the quiet part out loud... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-apologizes-mentally-ill-homeless-people-executed/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-apologi...
tlogan 1y ago
There’s no way to fix San Francisco right now. If anyone disagrees with a proposed change, they just call it a “Trump policy.” The sad part is that Trump talked so much nonsense and sh*t that you can find a quote to match almost any idea or policy, so any policy can be branded as his.
- cromwellian 1y ago
  I was in SF in the 90s this kind of talk is nonsense. Crime was far higher in SF back then, area near the stadium was a no-go area, there were open gang wars in SF on TV. Hell, go watch the Michael Douglas TV show “The Streets of SF” from the 70s80s Crime is down, mic of the city is gentrified and the total number of homeless in CA and SF is roughly in the same range it’s been since Reagan was governor. A lot of this BS about CA and how bad things are seems to be from people who haven’t been here long or people overdosing on right wing media which has Non-stop been attacking CA for 30 years nightly, all the while it has continued to become more and more dominant economically.
  - WorldPeas 1y ago
    As someone who's fairly new to this city, this is enlightening to read, as I always thought the homelessness was only a recent product of displacement due to increased cost-of-living
  - tlogan 1y ago
    I’ve been in San Francisco since 1992, and this is the worst it’s ever been. The current attitude seems to be that everything is fine and nothing needs fixing. Then people are shocked when Trump wins (and let’s be honest, Trump is not exactly a great person).
RickJWagner 1y ago
You are being downvoted, but your post is obviously truthful. I’ve gone to SF several times over the years for tech conferences. It started out as standard tourist excellence. Then it started rotting. The last year I went to Moscone Center, the afternoon walk back to the nearby hotel was horrific. Druggies lounging around, poop on the sidewalk, conference attendees speed marching through the maze, trying not to make eye contact. Once back at the hotel, it was nonstop sirens after dark. Compared to a decade back, it was a nightmare. Update: Just saw this article, SEMICON West skipped SF and went to Phoenix this year. It was a success. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/17/tech-conference-that-skipped-san-francisco-this-year-00613642 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/17/tech-conference-tha... SF deserves better, much better.
- lawlessone 1y ago
  I don't think people are downvoting them for their views about the state of SF (I've never been there so i can't comment on its state.). People took issue with them saying they don't care how it's fixed.
- nis0s 1y ago
  I don’t know about SF, but increased homelessness is related to illegal immigration https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/BFI_WP_2025-49.pdf https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/BFI_WP_2... May be partly related in CA as well https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-27/failure-to-account-for-immigration-makes-homelessness-look-worse-than-it-was-in-2024 https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-27/failure-...
  - nis0s 1y ago
    In what way does someone thinks this should be downvoted? One source is an academic paper, and another is journalism. Are you perhaps just allergic to reality?
    - meheleventyone 1y ago
      Probably because the paper you link doesn’t mention SF or illegal immigration and attributes much of the rise to housing asylum seekers in emergency shelters in New York, Denver, Chicago and Massachusetts. If you’re going to talk about reality you probably should read the sources you cite.
JCM9 1y ago
Getting downvoted. I’m not thrilled by the idea of deploying the national guard, but folks have had a long time to fix the mess in SF and have failed, badly. It’s not crazy to try something new. To those saying we never use the military for public security that’s simply false. NYC has had heavily armed national guard deployed as added security at transit hubs since 9/11 and they’re there to this day. If leaders of cities don’t want others to step in, don’t give people a reason to step in.
- raddan 1y ago
  Since we’re on a roll, we might as well deploy the military everywhere else we’ve tried things that don’t work. Clearly we can’t stop school shootings. Let’s put the military in schools. We can’t stop people without insurance from using the ER instead of regular doctor’s visits. Military! Prices are too high at the grocery store. Armed guards now! The military cannot solve any of the domestic problems they’re being deployed to solve.
yongjik 1y ago
Funny, that's how I feel about the USA as a whole. Used to be a nice country. I might care a little more about how they fix the problem, but only barely. Somebody had better fix the country soon.
nitwit005 1y ago
Trump specifically mentioned it was better 15 years ago, which was some accidental praise for his political opposition: https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/trump-says-sf-was-great-when-harris-newsom-ran-it-19719262.php https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/trump-says-sf-was-gr...
rainsford 1y ago
> I care less about how they fix the problem and more about that the problem is fixed. Just in general that kind of attitude is how you end up exchanging one problem for exciting new problems that might be even worse, assuming the poorly considered solution even fixes the original problem. Any halfway thoughtful and intellectually honest solutions analysis needs to consider A) is this an effective way to solve my problem and B) does it create unintended negative consequences or tradeoffs. Rhetoric exclusively focusing on the severity of the problem is almost always intended to get you to disengage the part of your brain that considers those two questions in favor of supporting any approach that just promises to solve the problem, whether or not it does so or creates any new problems in the process.
myvoiceismypass 1y ago
> Walking around SF now is depressing. Walking where, exactly? Do you just tire yourself out doing laps in the Tenderloin? I suppose the Giants season was fairly depressing, so I'll give you that - walking around Oracle Park probably was pretty gloomy this year.
_DeadFred_ 1y ago
I went to a rave in SF in 90s. Outside a dude stabbed another dude, then told my group of friends to circle around him and walk him down the street. SF has been... intense... my whole life. Janis Joplin was a hooker in SF. What world are you talking about? You talking about the very small window of GAP commercial San Fran? Shoe store Haight Asberry versus 'doses, doses' Haight?

by JCM9 1y ago

saubeidl 1y ago

The problem is massive inequality putting people on the streets, driven by people like Mr. Benioff.

ajross 1y ago

> I care less about how they fix the problem That's the logic that got Benioff in trouble. FWIW: people like you have to realize that the Guard is not and has never been a law enforcement apparatus. The policy goal of "sending in the troops" to US cities is not and has never been crime (the metrics for which are getting better and not worse, yes even in SF). The goal of putting military force in charge of directing civilians on city streets is and has always been giving the President, who commands that military, direct control over city streets. Right now if the white house doesn't like a protest or doesn't want it to happen, there's nothing they can do bureaucratically using their executive power to prevent it. It's a local thing. If the guard is already there waiting for orders, they can. It sounds like hyperbole, but it's really not: the transparent purpose to this big National Guard kerfuffle is the military suppression of dissent at the direction of the President.

g-b-r 1y ago
I think it's for many more things than suppression of protests
RickJWagner 1y ago
Please provide a source that suggests Trump has suppressed a protest or something similar.
- ajross 1y ago
  Seriously? It was widely reported that he attempted exactly that during the Floyd protests in 2020 (first link I got, but Esper's testimony was reported everywhere, pick your preferred media, or just find and watch the committee hearing): https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-defense-secretary https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-d... That time it failed because the pentagon leadership and generals stood in unison against it and he backed down. The guardrails have been rejiggered this time and it's only the courts that protect us now.
intalentive 1y ago
Gov. Hochul deployed the National Guard to New York subways last year.
- ajross 1y ago
  The governor of New York state has the legal ability to do that. The president of the United States does not (currently). My point is that you need to ask *why* the White House suddenly wants this power that heretofore we've been happy leaving with local governments. And the answer, very transparently, isn't crime.

gitonup 1y ago

It boggles my Detroit-grown mind that so many people claim this about so many thriving cities. I live in the PNW and regularly visit most of the major cities there and in NorCal. What exactly is more depressing there than any other city of any economic relevance in the nation?

saulpw 1y ago

The end justifies the means, right? Maybe SF should go all Singapore and execute people for pooping on the sidewalk, problem of sidewalk-pooping will soon be solved!

southwindcg 1y ago
A Fox News talking head literally said this recently, but had to apologize for saying the quiet part out loud... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-apologizes-mentally-ill-homeless-people-executed/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-news-brian-kilmeade-apologi...

tlogan 1y ago

There’s no way to fix San Francisco right now. If anyone disagrees with a proposed change, they just call it a “Trump policy.” The sad part is that Trump talked so much nonsense and sh*t that you can find a quote to match almost any idea or policy, so any policy can be branded as his.

cromwellian 1y ago
I was in SF in the 90s this kind of talk is nonsense. Crime was far higher in SF back then, area near the stadium was a no-go area, there were open gang wars in SF on TV. Hell, go watch the Michael Douglas TV show “The Streets of SF” from the 70s80s Crime is down, mic of the city is gentrified and the total number of homeless in CA and SF is roughly in the same range it’s been since Reagan was governor. A lot of this BS about CA and how bad things are seems to be from people who haven’t been here long or people overdosing on right wing media which has Non-stop been attacking CA for 30 years nightly, all the while it has continued to become more and more dominant economically.
- WorldPeas 1y ago
  As someone who's fairly new to this city, this is enlightening to read, as I always thought the homelessness was only a recent product of displacement due to increased cost-of-living
- tlogan 1y ago
  I’ve been in San Francisco since 1992, and this is the worst it’s ever been. The current attitude seems to be that everything is fine and nothing needs fixing. Then people are shocked when Trump wins (and let’s be honest, Trump is not exactly a great person).

RickJWagner 1y ago

You are being downvoted, but your post is obviously truthful. I’ve gone to SF several times over the years for tech conferences. It started out as standard tourist excellence. Then it started rotting. The last year I went to Moscone Center, the afternoon walk back to the nearby hotel was horrific. Druggies lounging around, poop on the sidewalk, conference attendees speed marching through the maze, trying not to make eye contact. Once back at the hotel, it was nonstop sirens after dark. Compared to a decade back, it was a nightmare. Update: Just saw this article, SEMICON West skipped SF and went to Phoenix this year. It was a success. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/17/tech-conference-that-skipped-san-francisco-this-year-00613642 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/17/tech-conference-tha... SF deserves better, much better.

lawlessone 1y ago
I don't think people are downvoting them for their views about the state of SF (I've never been there so i can't comment on its state.). People took issue with them saying they don't care how it's fixed.
nis0s 1y ago
I don’t know about SF, but increased homelessness is related to illegal immigration https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/BFI_WP_2025-49.pdf https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/BFI_WP_2... May be partly related in CA as well https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-27/failure-to-account-for-immigration-makes-homelessness-look-worse-than-it-was-in-2024 https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-27/failure-...
- nis0s 1y ago
  In what way does someone thinks this should be downvoted? One source is an academic paper, and another is journalism. Are you perhaps just allergic to reality?
  - meheleventyone 1y ago
    Probably because the paper you link doesn’t mention SF or illegal immigration and attributes much of the rise to housing asylum seekers in emergency shelters in New York, Denver, Chicago and Massachusetts. If you’re going to talk about reality you probably should read the sources you cite.

JCM9 1y ago

Getting downvoted. I’m not thrilled by the idea of deploying the national guard, but folks have had a long time to fix the mess in SF and have failed, badly. It’s not crazy to try something new. To those saying we never use the military for public security that’s simply false. NYC has had heavily armed national guard deployed as added security at transit hubs since 9/11 and they’re there to this day. If leaders of cities don’t want others to step in, don’t give people a reason to step in.

raddan 1y ago
Since we’re on a roll, we might as well deploy the military everywhere else we’ve tried things that don’t work. Clearly we can’t stop school shootings. Let’s put the military in schools. We can’t stop people without insurance from using the ER instead of regular doctor’s visits. Military! Prices are too high at the grocery store. Armed guards now! The military cannot solve any of the domestic problems they’re being deployed to solve.

yongjik 1y ago

Funny, that's how I feel about the USA as a whole. Used to be a nice country. I might care a little more about how they fix the problem, but only barely. Somebody had better fix the country soon.

nitwit005 1y ago

Trump specifically mentioned it was better 15 years ago, which was some accidental praise for his political opposition: https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/trump-says-sf-was-great-when-harris-newsom-ran-it-19719262.php https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/trump-says-sf-was-gr...

rainsford 1y ago

> I care less about how they fix the problem and more about that the problem is fixed. Just in general that kind of attitude is how you end up exchanging one problem for exciting new problems that might be even worse, assuming the poorly considered solution even fixes the original problem. Any halfway thoughtful and intellectually honest solutions analysis needs to consider A) is this an effective way to solve my problem and B) does it create unintended negative consequences or tradeoffs. Rhetoric exclusively focusing on the severity of the problem is almost always intended to get you to disengage the part of your brain that considers those two questions in favor of supporting any approach that just promises to solve the problem, whether or not it does so or creates any new problems in the process.

myvoiceismypass 1y ago

> Walking around SF now is depressing. Walking where, exactly? Do you just tire yourself out doing laps in the Tenderloin? I suppose the Giants season was fairly depressing, so I'll give you that - walking around Oracle Park probably was pretty gloomy this year.

_DeadFred_ 1y ago

I went to a rave in SF in 90s. Outside a dude stabbed another dude, then told my group of friends to circle around him and walk him down the street. SF has been... intense... my whole life. Janis Joplin was a hooker in SF. What world are you talking about? You talking about the very small window of GAP commercial San Fran? Shoe store Haight Asberry versus 'doses, doses' Haight?