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But 10 year old ICE is still a perfectly good car, yet 10 year old Tesla is trash. Not because there's a better Tesla now, but because it's no repairable and wi

But 10 year old ICE is still a perfectly good car, yet 10 year old Tesla is trash. Not because there's a better Tesla now, but because it's no repairable and will soon require a new $20k battery.

highwaylights 1y ago
Not really convinced the logic is right here. If the battery dies there’s still options before replacing it with a new one from the manufacturer at retail price. Even then, batteries in EVs don’t have a 100% failure rate. There are still many 15 year old Leafs driving around on the original battery, and I’m not sure the out-and-out failures (I.e. not including gradual capacity loss) are a high number either. Modern EVs (2016-present) have even lower failure rates again (below 1% within 200k miles including those replaced due to capacity loss)
- stackedinserter 1y ago
  That's not the reason why I'm personally not into EVs, but significant capacity loss == failure to me.
  - highwaylights 1y ago
    It depends on the original range surely? Losing 30% of 120 miles is a lot more significant to most people than losing 30% of 300 miles (which >99% won’t within the life of the car).
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      It also doesn't require the same person to be using the car. Someone has a 90 mile round trip commute and buys a car with a 120 mile range. Having it drop below 90 miles after a decade isn't working for them anymore, so they sell it. Works fine for someone with a 30 mile commute.
      - milesrout 1y ago
        [dead]
- throwawaylaptop 1y ago
  I love my Chevy Volt. But I can't recommend a $5k volt to any of my friends wanting a cheap car. Because when you buy a $5k Toyota, it's basically never a random sensor glitch away from costing you $5k+ even at an independent. But volts are inside their battery pack.
supportengineer 1y ago
Knowing several people driving 10+ year old Tesla's, I have to disagree with you. 1. Yes, the range is a little less. One person got their battery replaced by a 3rd party specialist. Runs great. 2. They certainly are repairable, just take it to Tesla service or a 3rd party mechanic. 3. Even if the battery is $20k, now you essentially have a new car for only $20k.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- stackedinserter 1y ago
  > Even if the battery is $20k, now you essentially have a new car for only $20k. By this logic, I get a new car every time I fill up my tank.
  - g8oz 1y ago
    No, a better analogy for the OP's logic would be that you get a new car every time you replace the transmission (or some other major overhaul). A ICE fill up is equivalent to a EV recharge.
btilly 1y ago
Funny. My Tesla has proven itself to be repairable. And has needed fewer repairs than my ICE car. As for the "will soon require", as https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-ba... verifies, at 200,000 miles a Tesla still averages being able to hold 90% of original charge. The average ICE car does not survive to 200,000 miles. While some do need batteries sooner, some ICE cars need new engines sooner. It's a wash. Average lifespan is comparable. (Electric would win hands down if Tesla had better manufacturing quality though.)
- eldaisfish 1y ago
  a lot of this data on battery health comes from california. Not everywhere has California's climate and lithium ion battery packs do not do well in the cold. Also, the link you shared is just a collection of anecdotes. It doesn't provide evidence of a trend.
- throwawaylaptop 1y ago
  The reason the average ice car doesn't last 200k miles is because car purchases are amazingly irrational. Other than a few unlucky models, basically any Toyota or Honda will go over 200k miles. I own two 250k mile Toyota/Lexus vehicles and expect another 100k from them easily. But people buy Dodge sedans and vans, jaguars and range rovers, Audis and Kias.... Because they basically don't care for getting 200k miles. Realistically if you buy a ice car that is known for lasting 200k, it will easily do it.
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    It doesn't even have to be particularly known for it. The cars you're listing are the ones well known for not doing it. You can pretty easily get 200k miles out of the median Chevy.
    - throwawaylaptop 1y ago
      I agree. I've had a 300k mile Silverado and currently own a 210k mile Volt. The thing that's basically hanging over the Volts head is a battery problem you almost can't even test for. The gas motor is doing just great.
p1dda 1y ago
So true!

But 10 year old ICE is still a perfectly good car, yet 10 year old Tesla is trash. Not because there's a better Tesla now, but because it's no repairable and will soon require a new $20k battery.

highwaylights 1y ago

Not really convinced the logic is right here. If the battery dies there’s still options before replacing it with a new one from the manufacturer at retail price. Even then, batteries in EVs don’t have a 100% failure rate. There are still many 15 year old Leafs driving around on the original battery, and I’m not sure the out-and-out failures (I.e. not including gradual capacity loss) are a high number either. Modern EVs (2016-present) have even lower failure rates again (below 1% within 200k miles including those replaced due to capacity loss)

stackedinserter 1y ago
That's not the reason why I'm personally not into EVs, but significant capacity loss == failure to me.
- highwaylights 1y ago
  It depends on the original range surely? Losing 30% of 120 miles is a lot more significant to most people than losing 30% of 300 miles (which >99% won’t within the life of the car).
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    It also doesn't require the same person to be using the car. Someone has a 90 mile round trip commute and buys a car with a 120 mile range. Having it drop below 90 miles after a decade isn't working for them anymore, so they sell it. Works fine for someone with a 30 mile commute.
    - milesrout 1y ago
      [dead]
throwawaylaptop 1y ago
I love my Chevy Volt. But I can't recommend a $5k volt to any of my friends wanting a cheap car. Because when you buy a $5k Toyota, it's basically never a random sensor glitch away from costing you $5k+ even at an independent. But volts are inside their battery pack.

supportengineer 1y ago

Knowing several people driving 10+ year old Tesla's, I have to disagree with you. 1. Yes, the range is a little less. One person got their battery replaced by a 3rd party specialist. Runs great. 2. They certainly are repairable, just take it to Tesla service or a 3rd party mechanic. 3. Even if the battery is $20k, now you essentially have a new car for only $20k.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
stackedinserter 1y ago
> Even if the battery is $20k, now you essentially have a new car for only $20k. By this logic, I get a new car every time I fill up my tank.
- g8oz 1y ago
  No, a better analogy for the OP's logic would be that you get a new car every time you replace the transmission (or some other major overhaul). A ICE fill up is equivalent to a EV recharge.

btilly 1y ago

Funny. My Tesla has proven itself to be repairable. And has needed fewer repairs than my ICE car. As for the "will soon require", as https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-ba... verifies, at 200,000 miles a Tesla still averages being able to hold 90% of original charge. The average ICE car does not survive to 200,000 miles. While some do need batteries sooner, some ICE cars need new engines sooner. It's a wash. Average lifespan is comparable. (Electric would win hands down if Tesla had better manufacturing quality though.)

eldaisfish 1y ago
a lot of this data on battery health comes from california. Not everywhere has California's climate and lithium ion battery packs do not do well in the cold. Also, the link you shared is just a collection of anecdotes. It doesn't provide evidence of a trend.
throwawaylaptop 1y ago
The reason the average ice car doesn't last 200k miles is because car purchases are amazingly irrational. Other than a few unlucky models, basically any Toyota or Honda will go over 200k miles. I own two 250k mile Toyota/Lexus vehicles and expect another 100k from them easily. But people buy Dodge sedans and vans, jaguars and range rovers, Audis and Kias.... Because they basically don't care for getting 200k miles. Realistically if you buy a ice car that is known for lasting 200k, it will easily do it.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  It doesn't even have to be particularly known for it. The cars you're listing are the ones well known for not doing it. You can pretty easily get 200k miles out of the median Chevy.
  - throwawaylaptop 1y ago
    I agree. I've had a 300k mile Silverado and currently own a 210k mile Volt. The thing that's basically hanging over the Volts head is a battery problem you almost can't even test for. The gas motor is doing just great.

p1dda 1y ago

So true!