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> Like Penrose said, I believe our consciousness is an electromagnetic field, Careful around magnets my friend, your consciousness will change a lot if you're

by vasco 1y ago

> Like Penrose said, I believe our consciousness is an electromagnetic field, Careful around magnets my friend, your consciousness will change a lot if you're right.

TehCorwiz 1y ago
It does, we actually use Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation to treat Major Depressive Disorder and a few other things. Precisely because electromagnetic waves can alter our perceptions and behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulat...
- andy99 1y ago
  No, TMS is electric shock therapy, the magnetic field induces electrical currents in the brain and that is the mechanism for the effect. EM waves can “alter our perceptions and behavior” in the sense that electric shocking the brain can, not through some special interaction.
  - TehCorwiz 1y ago
    There's no shock. There's also no direct contact. It's literally magnetic.
    - cwillu 1y ago
      A changing magnetic field induces an electric field; this is how asynchronous motors work. Having been in the room with a patient undergoing TMS a couple dozen times, I can assure you that the electromagnet will induce a muscle twitch from the electric field it creates. What it doesn't do is cause a seizure, which is the typical desired result of ECT.
  - Noaidi 1y ago
    > No, TMS is electric shock therapy, This is just 100% false. To say that TMS is electric shock therapy because it changed electrical signals in the brain is totally misleading, if not, totally misunderstanding the science of the relationship between electricity and magnetism. The fact that both electricity and magnetism can affect neurotransmission does not mean that TMS and ECT are the same thing. When they give people ECT they’re giving them controlled seizures. In TMS this is not the case at all.
  - markhahn 1y ago
    Your use of "is" here is problematic (and that's what triggered the other responses). I guess you mean "like". That would be accurate: TMS is disrupting normal brain activity a little like ECT does. It alters consciousness because it causes a partial reboot - an altered state. Drugs (and sleep and love and anger and meditation) also cause altered states. (Not to imply that any of these altered states are the same!)
    - andy99 1y ago
      The “is” I meant is that it induces an electric current in the brain. I’m sure there’s some subtlety (in the temporal and spatial patterns) but whether current is flowing between electrodes or is induced from a changing magnetic field, it’s still current, the effects of which are what we’re seeing. Crucially, there is no special magnetic interaction with the brain beyond Faraday’s law, as people seem to be implying.
Noaidi 1y ago
Oh, please don’t be silly. I think this is one of these comments that serve no purpose here. Most Magnets are too weak to possibly affect consciousness. But the earths magnetic field…. https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-other-animals-may-sense-earth-s-magnetic-field https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-other-animals... https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/2/ENEURO.0483-18.2019 https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/2/ENEURO.0483-18.2019 And Transcranial magnetic stimulation…. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/transcranial-magnetic-stimulation/about/pac-20384625 https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/transcranial-mag... What is depression other than a change in the state of consciousness? But I might want to continue and ask you a question, and this is just out of curiosity, do you think consciousness is made of matter?
- vasco 1y ago
  > But I might want to continue and ask you a question, and this is just out of curiosity, do you think consciousness is made of matter? You might want to stop calling people silly if you want them to answer your random questions. You'd have to define consciousness to ask that question because every person that overthinks these topics has their own personal definition and they are 100% sure they are right.
  - Noaidi 1y ago
    I didn’t say you were silly, I said you were being silly. And I was actually being nice because what you said was actually demeaning. “Careful around magnets my friend, your consciousness will change a lot if you're right.” That was just flat out ridicule with no scientific or philosophical rationale and was not useful to the conversation whatsoever. As I pointed out before consciousness as well defined. I’m not defining consciousness. I’m explaining how consciousness arises. Or what consciousness is. Consciousness does not arrive from matter, but instead matter arises from consciousness. Consciousness, or fields, are the driving force of the formation of matter.
mensetmanusman 1y ago
This is a mis-quote. Consciousness is more like a field than a particle. It just turns out that everything is a field.
- Noaidi 1y ago
  I want to say in light of all the down votes you’re getting on this, that I agree with you. I believe everything is a field and a probability. That objects have no defined borders, but our brains create these borders to reconcile with the probability of a thing being in a certain area. I think the proof this comes when we understand that we never really touch anything, it’s only the electromagnetic field that we are experiencing from another object.
  - mensetmanusman 1y ago
    Cheers mate. Also, I’m sorry to read you are homeless according to your description. We have family that suffer from schizophrenia and would be otherwise homeless without our support. I hope you have such a network. You might appreciate this discussion on fields: https://youtu.be/dU0NIU5d4BI https://youtu.be/dU0NIU5d4BI
    - Noaidi 1y ago
      Thank you, unfortunately, I don’t have such a network. And I actually have schizoaffective disorder, not schizophrenia. I often say schizophrenia to make it simple for people. But my family the ones who were not ill were not really helpful to those who were ill. And hence my current position. And can I just say that YouTube video and the demonstration with the magnets? Wow. I don’t see how any physicist can look at that and not have a total change of mind. That it’s the fields that are the formative function of what we call the universe well when you see it, so much more seems to make sense. I knew when I was in ninth grade that materialism had its end because the infinite aspect of cutting something into just did not sit right in my mind and therefore, I just intuitively thought that everything was really made up of nothing. Thank you for that and now I have a whole new series of videos to watch!

by vasco 1y ago

> Like Penrose said, I believe our consciousness is an electromagnetic field, Careful around magnets my friend, your consciousness will change a lot if you're right.

TehCorwiz 1y ago

It does, we actually use Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation to treat Major Depressive Disorder and a few other things. Precisely because electromagnetic waves can alter our perceptions and behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulat...

andy99 1y ago
No, TMS is electric shock therapy, the magnetic field induces electrical currents in the brain and that is the mechanism for the effect. EM waves can “alter our perceptions and behavior” in the sense that electric shocking the brain can, not through some special interaction.
- TehCorwiz 1y ago
  There's no shock. There's also no direct contact. It's literally magnetic.
  - cwillu 1y ago
    A changing magnetic field induces an electric field; this is how asynchronous motors work. Having been in the room with a patient undergoing TMS a couple dozen times, I can assure you that the electromagnet will induce a muscle twitch from the electric field it creates. What it doesn't do is cause a seizure, which is the typical desired result of ECT.
- Noaidi 1y ago
  > No, TMS is electric shock therapy, This is just 100% false. To say that TMS is electric shock therapy because it changed electrical signals in the brain is totally misleading, if not, totally misunderstanding the science of the relationship between electricity and magnetism. The fact that both electricity and magnetism can affect neurotransmission does not mean that TMS and ECT are the same thing. When they give people ECT they’re giving them controlled seizures. In TMS this is not the case at all.
- markhahn 1y ago
  Your use of "is" here is problematic (and that's what triggered the other responses). I guess you mean "like". That would be accurate: TMS is disrupting normal brain activity a little like ECT does. It alters consciousness because it causes a partial reboot - an altered state. Drugs (and sleep and love and anger and meditation) also cause altered states. (Not to imply that any of these altered states are the same!)
  - andy99 1y ago
    The “is” I meant is that it induces an electric current in the brain. I’m sure there’s some subtlety (in the temporal and spatial patterns) but whether current is flowing between electrodes or is induced from a changing magnetic field, it’s still current, the effects of which are what we’re seeing. Crucially, there is no special magnetic interaction with the brain beyond Faraday’s law, as people seem to be implying.

Noaidi 1y ago

Oh, please don’t be silly. I think this is one of these comments that serve no purpose here. Most Magnets are too weak to possibly affect consciousness. But the earths magnetic field…. https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-other-animals-may-sense-earth-s-magnetic-field https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-other-animals... https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/2/ENEURO.0483-18.2019 https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/2/ENEURO.0483-18.2019 And Transcranial magnetic stimulation…. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/transcranial-magnetic-stimulation/about/pac-20384625 https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/transcranial-mag... What is depression other than a change in the state of consciousness? But I might want to continue and ask you a question, and this is just out of curiosity, do you think consciousness is made of matter?

vasco 1y ago
> But I might want to continue and ask you a question, and this is just out of curiosity, do you think consciousness is made of matter? You might want to stop calling people silly if you want them to answer your random questions. You'd have to define consciousness to ask that question because every person that overthinks these topics has their own personal definition and they are 100% sure they are right.
- Noaidi 1y ago
  I didn’t say you were silly, I said you were being silly. And I was actually being nice because what you said was actually demeaning. “Careful around magnets my friend, your consciousness will change a lot if you're right.” That was just flat out ridicule with no scientific or philosophical rationale and was not useful to the conversation whatsoever. As I pointed out before consciousness as well defined. I’m not defining consciousness. I’m explaining how consciousness arises. Or what consciousness is. Consciousness does not arrive from matter, but instead matter arises from consciousness. Consciousness, or fields, are the driving force of the formation of matter.

mensetmanusman 1y ago

This is a mis-quote. Consciousness is more like a field than a particle. It just turns out that everything is a field.

Noaidi 1y ago
I want to say in light of all the down votes you’re getting on this, that I agree with you. I believe everything is a field and a probability. That objects have no defined borders, but our brains create these borders to reconcile with the probability of a thing being in a certain area. I think the proof this comes when we understand that we never really touch anything, it’s only the electromagnetic field that we are experiencing from another object.
- mensetmanusman 1y ago
  Cheers mate. Also, I’m sorry to read you are homeless according to your description. We have family that suffer from schizophrenia and would be otherwise homeless without our support. I hope you have such a network. You might appreciate this discussion on fields: https://youtu.be/dU0NIU5d4BI https://youtu.be/dU0NIU5d4BI
  - Noaidi 1y ago
    Thank you, unfortunately, I don’t have such a network. And I actually have schizoaffective disorder, not schizophrenia. I often say schizophrenia to make it simple for people. But my family the ones who were not ill were not really helpful to those who were ill. And hence my current position. And can I just say that YouTube video and the demonstration with the magnets? Wow. I don’t see how any physicist can look at that and not have a total change of mind. That it’s the fields that are the formative function of what we call the universe well when you see it, so much more seems to make sense. I knew when I was in ninth grade that materialism had its end because the infinite aspect of cutting something into just did not sit right in my mind and therefore, I just intuitively thought that everything was really made up of nothing. Thank you for that and now I have a whole new series of videos to watch!