6 ms·

Anecdata, but putting it out there because HN comments have solved many medical problems of mine that doctors couldn't: I had a wound that wouldn't close and t

Anecdata, but putting it out there because HN comments have solved many medical problems of mine that doctors couldn't: I had a wound that wouldn't close and the thing that eventually got it to close was topical collagen powder - packed directly into the wound. This is something that the literature is quite positive on, but large Western hospitals mostly don't do for some reason. On oral collagen, the literature seems a bit more mixed but still generally positive. Collagen is something that used to make up a much larger part of our diet, so at the very least I don't think there's much risk in trying - and perhaps there are other benefits.

zipy124 1y ago
I won't comment on topical collagen as there is indeed reasons why it may work but we can be pretty sure oral supplementation is unnecessary, since it is just a protein, so if you get sufficient protein intakes (of the respective amino acids) then your body will just make it. Your body when digesting collagen (and other proteins) in almost all cases will just convert it into it's amino acids anyway. The supplement industry is just EXTREMRLY profitable and so distorts modern media and occasionally science.
- pcthrowaway 1y ago
  > so if you get sufficient protein intakes (of the respective amino acids) then your body will just make it. I don't think everyone produces amino acids as efficiently as everyone else. For some people, perhaps supplementation is beneficial.
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    That's an unscientific opinion. Any data?
    - theoreticalmal 1y ago
      Is it any more or less unscientific than the parent comment?
      - hagg3n 1y ago
        Assuming we're in the unscientific realm, and that scientificity exists on a spectrum, I'd say the parent comment is more scientific, because at least it provides a description of a logical causal chain (collagen is a protein, we digest proteins indiscriminately, therefore ...).
    - pcthrowaway 1y ago
      I'm not inclined to do a bunch of research and I'm not claiming to be the best to interpret the studies, as I don't have a background in biology, but a cursory search shows many results like this https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10545-017-0063-1 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10545-017-0063-1 I didn't claim I was certain of this however, only that I'm under the impression that amino acid synthesis doesn't work as well for all people, for all amino acids.
cestith 1y ago
The main concern to me of topical collagen for an open wound is that you probably don’t have good access to a medically sterile source of collagen. That’s probably safe enough to try on your own if you’re smart and careful, but the wrong brand or poor handling could add to the risk of infection or even toxicity. There may be a chicken-and-egg issue that there’s no source or no approved method a clinician would trust for that. Especially in the US, land of the lawsuit, it would probably take years of studies to come up with a protocol before it became moderately widespread.
- owenversteeg 1y ago
  There are sterile collagen wound dressings of all types available right now - including in sterile powder form - you can buy them as a consumer or a professional, and they _are_ in use around the world right now, they're just very unevenly popular.
  - cestith 1y ago
    Thanks for the info. I was aware of bandages and packings with collagen embedded or coatings. I wasn’t familiar with powered collagen similar to what’s in the supplements aisle being used medically at least in the US. Then again, I’m not in the medical field myself.
LarsDu88 1y ago
This doesn't make much sense. Collagen is just a proline rich amino acid your body makes itself. Also you get the same type of amino acid by eating jello pudding. Sticking it directly into a wound shouldn't make much of a difference in healing, and if anything might be a bit dangerous if the collagen is contaminated in any way with bacteria. Could you provide you literature citations here for reference?
- lithocarpus 1y ago
  It's an interesting idea to use it topically. There are all kinds of things that can be absorbed through the skin and used by the body. I don't have any knowledge of this specific mechanism and it may be completely impossible for the body to use anything from this kind of protein. But I'm glad some people are willing to try it.
- owenversteeg 1y ago
  >This doesn't make much sense. Collagen is just a proline rich amino acid your body makes itself. Also you get the same type of amino acid by eating jello pudding. Sticking it directly into a wound shouldn't make much of a difference in healing, and if anything might be a bit dangerous if the collagen is contaminated in any way with bacteria. ...what, lmao 1. Collagen is not an amino acid, it is a protein 2. The body makes a lot of things itself that we supply to sick or wounded people. It is SOP in any hospital to supply: various proteins, heat, enzymes, clotting factors, blood, hormones, steroids that the body makes itself... "The body makes (thing) itself" is an absurd reason not to supply something to the wounded. It does not make one iota of sense if you have even the slightest knowledge of medicine. 3. "Also you get the same type of amino acid by eating jello pudding." Yes, and you get salt and water from McDonalds fries, and yet we still use saline solution. Jerusalem artichokes are high in inulin, which we also use to measure kidney function. Why exactly would any of this have any bearing on its efficacy? Collagen, by the way, is the most abundant protein in mammals, so there are a long list of things aside from Jello that contain it. 4. Sterile collagen is widely available both OTC and to professionals 5. Sure. Here's a review of eleven RCTs on collagen dressings for wound healing. Pretty powerful results! doi:10.3389/fsurg.2022.978407

zipy124 1y ago

I won't comment on topical collagen as there is indeed reasons why it may work but we can be pretty sure oral supplementation is unnecessary, since it is just a protein, so if you get sufficient protein intakes (of the respective amino acids) then your body will just make it. Your body when digesting collagen (and other proteins) in almost all cases will just convert it into it's amino acids anyway. The supplement industry is just EXTREMRLY profitable and so distorts modern media and occasionally science.

pcthrowaway 1y ago
> so if you get sufficient protein intakes (of the respective amino acids) then your body will just make it. I don't think everyone produces amino acids as efficiently as everyone else. For some people, perhaps supplementation is beneficial.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  That's an unscientific opinion. Any data?
  - theoreticalmal 1y ago
    Is it any more or less unscientific than the parent comment?
    - hagg3n 1y ago
      Assuming we're in the unscientific realm, and that scientificity exists on a spectrum, I'd say the parent comment is more scientific, because at least it provides a description of a logical causal chain (collagen is a protein, we digest proteins indiscriminately, therefore ...).
  - pcthrowaway 1y ago
    I'm not inclined to do a bunch of research and I'm not claiming to be the best to interpret the studies, as I don't have a background in biology, but a cursory search shows many results like this https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10545-017-0063-1 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10545-017-0063-1 I didn't claim I was certain of this however, only that I'm under the impression that amino acid synthesis doesn't work as well for all people, for all amino acids.

cestith 1y ago

The main concern to me of topical collagen for an open wound is that you probably don’t have good access to a medically sterile source of collagen. That’s probably safe enough to try on your own if you’re smart and careful, but the wrong brand or poor handling could add to the risk of infection or even toxicity. There may be a chicken-and-egg issue that there’s no source or no approved method a clinician would trust for that. Especially in the US, land of the lawsuit, it would probably take years of studies to come up with a protocol before it became moderately widespread.

owenversteeg 1y ago
There are sterile collagen wound dressings of all types available right now - including in sterile powder form - you can buy them as a consumer or a professional, and they _are_ in use around the world right now, they're just very unevenly popular.
- cestith 1y ago
  Thanks for the info. I was aware of bandages and packings with collagen embedded or coatings. I wasn’t familiar with powered collagen similar to what’s in the supplements aisle being used medically at least in the US. Then again, I’m not in the medical field myself.

LarsDu88 1y ago

This doesn't make much sense. Collagen is just a proline rich amino acid your body makes itself. Also you get the same type of amino acid by eating jello pudding. Sticking it directly into a wound shouldn't make much of a difference in healing, and if anything might be a bit dangerous if the collagen is contaminated in any way with bacteria. Could you provide you literature citations here for reference?

lithocarpus 1y ago
It's an interesting idea to use it topically. There are all kinds of things that can be absorbed through the skin and used by the body. I don't have any knowledge of this specific mechanism and it may be completely impossible for the body to use anything from this kind of protein. But I'm glad some people are willing to try it.
owenversteeg 1y ago
>This doesn't make much sense. Collagen is just a proline rich amino acid your body makes itself. Also you get the same type of amino acid by eating jello pudding. Sticking it directly into a wound shouldn't make much of a difference in healing, and if anything might be a bit dangerous if the collagen is contaminated in any way with bacteria. ...what, lmao 1. Collagen is not an amino acid, it is a protein 2. The body makes a lot of things itself that we supply to sick or wounded people. It is SOP in any hospital to supply: various proteins, heat, enzymes, clotting factors, blood, hormones, steroids that the body makes itself... "The body makes (thing) itself" is an absurd reason not to supply something to the wounded. It does not make one iota of sense if you have even the slightest knowledge of medicine. 3. "Also you get the same type of amino acid by eating jello pudding." Yes, and you get salt and water from McDonalds fries, and yet we still use saline solution. Jerusalem artichokes are high in inulin, which we also use to measure kidney function. Why exactly would any of this have any bearing on its efficacy? Collagen, by the way, is the most abundant protein in mammals, so there are a long list of things aside from Jello that contain it. 4. Sterile collagen is widely available both OTC and to professionals 5. Sure. Here's a review of eleven RCTs on collagen dressings for wound healing. Pretty powerful results! doi:10.3389/fsurg.2022.978407