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While you pay a markup on the application, UberEats and others keeps 25/30% of the price based on the marked up price. If you make the calculation they usually

by Sayrus 1y ago

While you pay a markup on the application, UberEats and others keeps 25/30% of the price based on the marked up price. If you make the calculation they usually have to cut into the kitchen margin while the price for the customer stays more expensive.

MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago
Can't the restaurant just say no?
- _heimdall 1y ago
  Unless something has changed over the last couple years, restaurants opt in to being available on those apps. Uber Eats and the others are generally integrated into the restaurant's point of sales system.
  - ivape 1y ago
    That would explain why they sell less or cheaper food, which appear too high on the app due to the markup they have to add to the price to handle the fees. This would be an alternate explanation to why things seem inflated. Even with inflated ingredients prices, it actually still doesn’t add up how the volume dropped so much such that each unit would need to cost that much more (I’m arguing it can’t just be the ingredient prices being high). The fees adding to the perceptual inflation make sense. It’s more expensive volume or less cheaper volume they can make due to higher ingredient prices PLUS the fees they have to add to cover the delivery service cut. That’s how you get a $20 burger for delivery. This all gets worse when the prices become sticky at the retail place itself (app prices enter the real world). These delivery service are a serious agitator, true disrupter.
  - inferiorhuman 1y ago
    Nah. Those delivery services were opt-out until California passed a law in 2021 prohibiting that kind of behavior.
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      Ok, but if they're doing it without the restaurant's buy in, then they're presumably just acting as a middleman and ordering from the restaurant themselves, at which point I'm not sure how they're stiffing the restaurant 20-30%. If I were running a restaurant and Doordash kept calling me trying to submit an order for cheaper than the food costs I would simply decline to take their business...?
      - inferiorhuman 1y ago
        Doordash puts up a listing for a restaurant and siphons off take-out traffic. Once Doordash gets a critical mass they can turn around and "negotiate" with the restaurant.
        notpushkin 1y ago
        And the restaurant can say “no.” If I were a restaurateur and caught a glimpse of a Doordash driver in my finest establishment, the first thing I would do is put together a simple online order form and start advertising it in every order. If you just disappear from the app one day, your customers trying to reorder would probably go somewhere else – but if they know they can order on your site instead, they probably will (if your food is good enough and your ordering experience is top-notch, or vice versa).
        inferiorhuman 1y ago
        And the restaurant can say “no.” And now you have hordes of angry customers who can't understand why you have a Doordash listing (that you didn't create and don't want) but won't fulfill orders. If I were a restaurateur and caught a glimpse of a Doordash driver in my finest establishment, the first thing I would do is put together a simple online order form and start advertising it in every order. Whether it's not wanting to give Doordash a cut, not wanting to sell food that doesn't travel well for delivery, not wanting to crowd out local customers, not wanting Doordash to hijack their brand, not wanting Doordash to crowd out their own in-house delivery, or whatever actual restaurant owners litigated these forced listings because they didn't want to be listed on Doordash. e.g. https://boston.eater.com/2016/3/4/11160924/legal-sea-foods-sues-doordash-trademark-infringement https://boston.eater.com/2016/3/4/11160924/legal-sea-foods-s...
- ignormies 1y ago
  Not always - https://www.eater.com/2020/1/29/21113416/grubhub-seamless-kin-khao-online-delivery-mistake-doordash https://www.eater.com/2020/1/29/21113416/grubhub-seamless-ki... - https://www.knoxnews.com/story/entertainment/dining/2018/10/19/doordash-local-food-delivery-service-leaves-bad-taste-eateries/1533938002/ https://www.knoxnews.com/story/entertainment/dining/2018/10/... - https://lawstreetmedia.com/featured/restaurant-sues-doordash-for-falsely-advertising-partnership-redirecting-users/ https://lawstreetmedia.com/featured/restaurant-sues-doordash... - https://www.golocalprov.com/news/legal-but-unethical-ri-restaurants-speak-out-on-unauthorized-food-delivery https://www.golocalprov.com/news/legal-but-unethical-ri-rest... - https://www.wctv.tv/2023/12/19/phony-restaurant-listing-doordash-creates-headache-pizzeria-its-customers-manager-says/ https://www.wctv.tv/2023/12/19/phony-restaurant-listing-door...
  - khannn 1y ago
    [dead]
  - Capricorn2481 1y ago
    These stories are horrible, but that doesn't prove restaurants lose money on Doordash. One of my clients bootstraps online ordering for restaurants. About 80% of those restaurants request to be on Doordash, and have been on there for many years. I assume they're not all dumbasses losing money on every order. Doesn't excuse Doordash taking advantage of anyone.
    - samtho 1y ago
      Not every restaurant can handle the deferred payout either. Their business is based on receiving payment at the time of service. The restaurant model operates on razor thin margins, and they don’t buy their food on net 30 terms, but they have to absorb costs as if they do. There are other issues, but this setup looks a lot like paying the mafia due to the imbalance of power.
      - hackernewds 1y ago
        Sure but you're blurting generic talking points that don't address the evidence of Doordash hosting millions of restaurants obviously profitably for the restaurants
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  When the market is captured by the marketplace apps: No, not really
- thrance 1y ago
  Sure they can, and go bankrupt because people order more than they go to restaurants nowadays.
Calavar 1y ago
That's my understanding. Uber takes 25%, but by default that's offset by increasing the on-app price 25% relative to the in-store price, and the owner has to explicitly opt out of that behavior. So at the end of the day, they should be getting the same amount as in store orders unless they opted out of the markup, right?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- mcintyre1994 1y ago
  That calculation doesn’t work. If an item costs $10, and Uber marks it up 25% then Uber lists it at $12.50. When Uber takes 25% of the marked up price, they’re taking $3.125 and the restaurant is getting less than $10.
  - prepend 1y ago
    Under would just mark up the price to $13.33 so after they take their 25% the restaurant would get $10.

by Sayrus 1y ago

MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago

Can't the restaurant just say no?

_heimdall 1y ago
Unless something has changed over the last couple years, restaurants opt in to being available on those apps. Uber Eats and the others are generally integrated into the restaurant's point of sales system.
- ivape 1y ago
  That would explain why they sell less or cheaper food, which appear too high on the app due to the markup they have to add to the price to handle the fees. This would be an alternate explanation to why things seem inflated. Even with inflated ingredients prices, it actually still doesn’t add up how the volume dropped so much such that each unit would need to cost that much more (I’m arguing it can’t just be the ingredient prices being high). The fees adding to the perceptual inflation make sense. It’s more expensive volume or less cheaper volume they can make due to higher ingredient prices PLUS the fees they have to add to cover the delivery service cut. That’s how you get a $20 burger for delivery. This all gets worse when the prices become sticky at the retail place itself (app prices enter the real world). These delivery service are a serious agitator, true disrupter.
- inferiorhuman 1y ago
  Nah. Those delivery services were opt-out until California passed a law in 2021 prohibiting that kind of behavior.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    Ok, but if they're doing it without the restaurant's buy in, then they're presumably just acting as a middleman and ordering from the restaurant themselves, at which point I'm not sure how they're stiffing the restaurant 20-30%. If I were running a restaurant and Doordash kept calling me trying to submit an order for cheaper than the food costs I would simply decline to take their business...?
    - inferiorhuman 1y ago
      Doordash puts up a listing for a restaurant and siphons off take-out traffic. Once Doordash gets a critical mass they can turn around and "negotiate" with the restaurant.
      - notpushkin 1y ago
        And the restaurant can say “no.” If I were a restaurateur and caught a glimpse of a Doordash driver in my finest establishment, the first thing I would do is put together a simple online order form and start advertising it in every order. If you just disappear from the app one day, your customers trying to reorder would probably go somewhere else – but if they know they can order on your site instead, they probably will (if your food is good enough and your ordering experience is top-notch, or vice versa).
        inferiorhuman 1y ago
        And the restaurant can say “no.” And now you have hordes of angry customers who can't understand why you have a Doordash listing (that you didn't create and don't want) but won't fulfill orders. If I were a restaurateur and caught a glimpse of a Doordash driver in my finest establishment, the first thing I would do is put together a simple online order form and start advertising it in every order. Whether it's not wanting to give Doordash a cut, not wanting to sell food that doesn't travel well for delivery, not wanting to crowd out local customers, not wanting Doordash to hijack their brand, not wanting Doordash to crowd out their own in-house delivery, or whatever actual restaurant owners litigated these forced listings because they didn't want to be listed on Doordash. e.g. https://boston.eater.com/2016/3/4/11160924/legal-sea-foods-sues-doordash-trademark-infringement https://boston.eater.com/2016/3/4/11160924/legal-sea-foods-s...
ignormies 1y ago
Not always - https://www.eater.com/2020/1/29/21113416/grubhub-seamless-kin-khao-online-delivery-mistake-doordash https://www.eater.com/2020/1/29/21113416/grubhub-seamless-ki... - https://www.knoxnews.com/story/entertainment/dining/2018/10/19/doordash-local-food-delivery-service-leaves-bad-taste-eateries/1533938002/ https://www.knoxnews.com/story/entertainment/dining/2018/10/... - https://lawstreetmedia.com/featured/restaurant-sues-doordash-for-falsely-advertising-partnership-redirecting-users/ https://lawstreetmedia.com/featured/restaurant-sues-doordash... - https://www.golocalprov.com/news/legal-but-unethical-ri-restaurants-speak-out-on-unauthorized-food-delivery https://www.golocalprov.com/news/legal-but-unethical-ri-rest... - https://www.wctv.tv/2023/12/19/phony-restaurant-listing-doordash-creates-headache-pizzeria-its-customers-manager-says/ https://www.wctv.tv/2023/12/19/phony-restaurant-listing-door...
- khannn 1y ago
  [dead]
- Capricorn2481 1y ago
  These stories are horrible, but that doesn't prove restaurants lose money on Doordash. One of my clients bootstraps online ordering for restaurants. About 80% of those restaurants request to be on Doordash, and have been on there for many years. I assume they're not all dumbasses losing money on every order. Doesn't excuse Doordash taking advantage of anyone.
  - samtho 1y ago
    Not every restaurant can handle the deferred payout either. Their business is based on receiving payment at the time of service. The restaurant model operates on razor thin margins, and they don’t buy their food on net 30 terms, but they have to absorb costs as if they do. There are other issues, but this setup looks a lot like paying the mafia due to the imbalance of power.
    - hackernewds 1y ago
      Sure but you're blurting generic talking points that don't address the evidence of Doordash hosting millions of restaurants obviously profitably for the restaurants
AlecSchueler 1y ago
When the market is captured by the marketplace apps: No, not really
thrance 1y ago
Sure they can, and go bankrupt because people order more than they go to restaurants nowadays.

Calavar 1y ago

That's my understanding. Uber takes 25%, but by default that's offset by increasing the on-app price 25% relative to the in-store price, and the owner has to explicitly opt out of that behavior. So at the end of the day, they should be getting the same amount as in store orders unless they opted out of the markup, right?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
mcintyre1994 1y ago
That calculation doesn’t work. If an item costs $10, and Uber marks it up 25% then Uber lists it at $12.50. When Uber takes 25% of the marked up price, they’re taking $3.125 and the restaurant is getting less than $10.
- prepend 1y ago
  Under would just mark up the price to $13.33 so after they take their 25% the restaurant would get $10.