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I'm in the same camp as you. However the best work I ever did was done when I didn't have a pressure of being fired for offending the wrong person, and that I

by dijit 1y ago

I'm in the same camp as you. However the best work I ever did was done when I didn't have a pressure of being fired for offending the wrong person, and that I had the psychological safety to think longer term- since a short term "time-waste" often converted to better long term outcomes for everybody.

bpt3 1y ago
In my experience, companies that are focused on being a well-run company rather than a politically/personality/emotionally driven shitshow also are the ones that have long-term perspective and avoid making kneejerk reactions to almost everything.
Aurornis 1y ago
> However the best work I ever did was done when I didn't have a pressure of being fired for offending the wrong person, and that I had the psychological safety to think longer term- since a short term "time-waste" often converted to better long term outcomes for everybody. I felt the same way until I worked at a company where almost nobody ever got fired or laid off. Anyone who was hired was basically guaranteed their job until the end of time because the leadership didn't like letting anyone go. It only took a couple years until every time you needed to do something you'd run into some employee somewhere who wasn't doing their job. Even many people who seemed capable and appropriately skilled started slacking off when they realized there were never any consequences at all. It was like a broken windows theory for the workplace. As people looked around and saw that others were doing almost no work, it started to spread. The people who liked actually shipping things started leaving, turning it into a snowball effect. So there's a balance. Always working under threat of layoff and seeing good coworkers let go when you're already overburdened isn't good. Working in a company where there is no pressure at all to perform isn't good either.
- dijit 1y ago
  Hah, yes, I've also been in those companies, and that's exactly why I have the shared view of the person I was replying to. There's a sort of apathy osmosis that happens when you realise that you can't actually do anything because everyone else is sort of checked out... so the you, yourself, sort of check out too. I get anxiety and "itchy" if I don't move towards my goals with any kind of swiftness.
- n4r9 1y ago
  That's the opposite end of the spectrum though. OP was describing a culture where you're free to make short-term trial and error losses as part of a long term strategy. You're describing poor management.
gjsman-1000 1y ago
Been there - done that. Worked at a company with no employee pressure, and it was absolutely infuriating that I could work my tail end off, while another employee was provably committing borderline wage fraud, but it always got written off as "personal issues" rather than take the risk of intervening... ever. To the point I even had a boss say that part of this happens because nobody is there to spank adults when they need it (seriously), rather than intervene too strongly and have to find a replacement or hurt feelings or something. Or another contract worker, I got an apology from said boss... but he insisted she's better now than she used to be, the latest incident is mild compared to incidents before I arrived. As though that fixes it. Much happier now at a company which cuts dead weight; and accepts we can't afford it.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- JohnMakin 1y ago
  I like more competitive environments too, but when life hits you out of nowhere, as it surely will, you may come to regret working in one of these environments when it happens. It happened to me - a close family member died and they wouldn't approve any time off to attend to it, then I had a major surgery, barely got approved for the day of the event and no recovery time, so I was forced to take over a month of unpaid leave. I was basically forced out after that point, for things that are pretty normal for someone to be dealing with. You're not going to be young forever.
nonethewiser 1y ago
Guess it's their loss then. If companies are more productive by being more relaxed then we should see more of those companies survive and thrive.
- dijit 1y ago
  We do, but they don't make waves. And as other comments point out, not having any pressure at all creates a self-fulfilling stall-cycle.
- sarchertech 1y ago
  Assuming a perfectly competitive market with no externalities sure.

by dijit 1y ago

bpt3 1y ago

In my experience, companies that are focused on being a well-run company rather than a politically/personality/emotionally driven shitshow also are the ones that have long-term perspective and avoid making kneejerk reactions to almost everything.

Aurornis 1y ago

> However the best work I ever did was done when I didn't have a pressure of being fired for offending the wrong person, and that I had the psychological safety to think longer term- since a short term "time-waste" often converted to better long term outcomes for everybody. I felt the same way until I worked at a company where almost nobody ever got fired or laid off. Anyone who was hired was basically guaranteed their job until the end of time because the leadership didn't like letting anyone go. It only took a couple years until every time you needed to do something you'd run into some employee somewhere who wasn't doing their job. Even many people who seemed capable and appropriately skilled started slacking off when they realized there were never any consequences at all. It was like a broken windows theory for the workplace. As people looked around and saw that others were doing almost no work, it started to spread. The people who liked actually shipping things started leaving, turning it into a snowball effect. So there's a balance. Always working under threat of layoff and seeing good coworkers let go when you're already overburdened isn't good. Working in a company where there is no pressure at all to perform isn't good either.

dijit 1y ago
Hah, yes, I've also been in those companies, and that's exactly why I have the shared view of the person I was replying to. There's a sort of apathy osmosis that happens when you realise that you can't actually do anything because everyone else is sort of checked out... so the you, yourself, sort of check out too. I get anxiety and "itchy" if I don't move towards my goals with any kind of swiftness.
n4r9 1y ago
That's the opposite end of the spectrum though. OP was describing a culture where you're free to make short-term trial and error losses as part of a long term strategy. You're describing poor management.

gjsman-1000 1y ago

Been there - done that. Worked at a company with no employee pressure, and it was absolutely infuriating that I could work my tail end off, while another employee was provably committing borderline wage fraud, but it always got written off as "personal issues" rather than take the risk of intervening... ever. To the point I even had a boss say that part of this happens because nobody is there to spank adults when they need it (seriously), rather than intervene too strongly and have to find a replacement or hurt feelings or something. Or another contract worker, I got an apology from said boss... but he insisted she's better now than she used to be, the latest incident is mild compared to incidents before I arrived. As though that fixes it. Much happier now at a company which cuts dead weight; and accepts we can't afford it.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
JohnMakin 1y ago
I like more competitive environments too, but when life hits you out of nowhere, as it surely will, you may come to regret working in one of these environments when it happens. It happened to me - a close family member died and they wouldn't approve any time off to attend to it, then I had a major surgery, barely got approved for the day of the event and no recovery time, so I was forced to take over a month of unpaid leave. I was basically forced out after that point, for things that are pretty normal for someone to be dealing with. You're not going to be young forever.

nonethewiser 1y ago

Guess it's their loss then. If companies are more productive by being more relaxed then we should see more of those companies survive and thrive.

dijit 1y ago
We do, but they don't make waves. And as other comments point out, not having any pressure at all creates a self-fulfilling stall-cycle.
sarchertech 1y ago
Assuming a perfectly competitive market with no externalities sure.