17 ms·

> Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same tasks ive been last couple of years. I have a work provided M2 Pro with 32GB of RAM. After t

by kokada 1y ago

> Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same tasks ive been last couple of years. I have a work provided M2 Pro with 32GB of RAM. After the Tahoe upgrade it feels like one of the sluggish PCs at the house. It is the only one that I can see the mouse teleporting sometimes when I move it fast. This is after disabling transparency in Accessibility settings mind you, it was even worse before.

fersarr 1y ago
same here
ExoticPearTree 1y ago
26.0.1 fixed the sluggishness. 26.0 was pretty unstable - felt like a game dropping frames.
- kokada 1y ago
  26.0.1 is better, but I can still get sluggishness in a few specific cases. I just got one example while passing the mouse quickly through my dock (I still use the magnify animation) and I can clearly see it dropping a few frames. This never happened in macOS 15.
speedgoose 1y ago
Do you have a few electron powered apps that didn’t get updated yet? Electron used to override a private function that makes the Mac OS sluggish on Tahoe, and apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple.
- kokada 1y ago
  I keep my applications pretty much up-to-date but I didn't check the release notes for each Electron application that I have to make sure they're updated. I still think this is a failure of macOS, since one misbehaving application shouldn't bring the whole environment to slow to a crawl. What I can say is that while the situation is much better than at Day 1, the whole Tahoe experience is not as fluid as Sequoia. Also, it doesn't really matter to me if this was a private function or not, if this was Windows or Gnome/KDE people would blame the developers of the desktop instead.
  - speedgoose 1y ago
    Yes I think Apple is to blame there. Electron is so prominent that they should have detected the problem and found a solution well before the general release.
    - IMTDb 1y ago
      So now you can disregard the notion of "private function" if you pass 100k stars on GitHub ?
      - ruined 1y ago
        all APIs are public APIs
        NetMageSCW 1y ago
        Only if you don’t care about your users or your apps reputation. Of course, if you are using Electron those ships have already sailed.
      - javawizard 1y ago
        There's definitely a line of thinking that would say "yes": https://www.hyrumslaw.com/ https://www.hyrumslaw.com/
        0x457 1y ago
        Sure, someone will depend on it, we all ignored "private" vs "public" at least once. Okay to do and okay to be mad when your thing breaks because you decided to depend on it? Nope.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        Okay to be mad the OS vendor didn't do anything to help when the users are the ones that face the fallout? Yes. Even if you disqualify the devs from being mad, everyone else gets to be mad.
- placatedmayhem 1y ago
  The check script I've been recommending is here: https://github.com/tkafka/detect-electron-apps-on-mac https://github.com/tkafka/detect-electron-apps-on-mac About half of the apps I use regularly have been fixed. Some might never be fixed, though...
  - EasyMark 1y ago
    wasn't there a workaround for those apps that might not ever get updated? I thought I saw something on reddit. Some config change
    - joshstrange 1y ago
      > Run launchctl setenv CHROME_HEADLESS 1 on every system start. The CHROME_HEADLESS flag has a side effect of disabling Electron app window shadows, which makes them ugly, but also stops triggering the issue. From: https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/1nvoirl/i_made_a_script_to_detect_electronbased_apps_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/1nvoirl/i_made_a_scr...
- EasyMark 1y ago
  This is why I stay on previous release until at least 0.2 or 0.3 to let them work out the bugs so I dont' have to deal with them, there was nothing in 26 that felt pressing to me that I would need to update
  - abustamam 1y ago
    Tbh I'm purposely not updating because I'm not in love with the new ~Aero~ glass UI.
- michelb 1y ago
  The OS and stock apps are much slower in Tahoe even. And the UI updates/interactions are also slower. I’m lucky I only upgraded my least used machine, and that’s a well stocked M2.
  - astrange 1y ago
    It should not be slower. File a report in Feedback Assistant.
- nikanj 1y ago
  Or more likely nobody gives a damn about performance while doing testing.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  WWDC keynote on the state of the nation was quite clear on what Apple thinks about Electron and related stuff like React Native. Hence I am not surprised that they ignore their existence.
- freehorse 1y ago
  > apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple Or also the other way around, nobody who develops electron apps cares to test their app on macos in the beta releases (beta testing for developers was long out afaik). Except if it was like that JIT JVM bug that caused apps to crash and was not in the beta release.
- thewebguyd 1y ago
  > apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple. You have it the other way around. It should be, apparently no one making Electron bothered to test on the numerous developer and public betas to make sure their hacky override of undocumented APIs (which Apple explicitly says not to use) didn't break.
kobalsky 1y ago
my tinfoil-hat theory is that on each OS iteration Apple adds a new feature that leverages the latest chips hardware acceleration features and for older chips they do software-only implementations. they ship-of-thesseus the crap out of their OS but replacing with parts that need these new hardware features that run slow on older chips due to software-only implementations. I got the first generation iPad Pro, which is e-waste now, but I use it as a screen for my CCTV, it cannot even display the virtual keyboard without stuttering like crazy, it lags switching apps, there's a delay for everything, this thing was smooth as butter on release.
- thewebguyd 1y ago
  I have the 4th gen (2020) iPad Pro with the A12X Bionic, the same chip they put in the Apple Silicon transition dev kits. With iPadOS 26 it's become barely usable, despite still being performant as ever on iPadOS 18. I'm talking huge drop in performance, stutters and slow downs everywhere. I was considering just replacing the battery and keeping it for several more years but now I feel forced to upgrade which has me considering whether I still want/need an iPad since I'd also have to buy a new magic keyboard since they redesigned it, and they bumped the price ($1299 now vs. $999 when I got the 4th gen) so I'd be looking at $1700. Trying to hold out for an iPad Air with ProMotion. I may be in the minority here, but I think 5 years is too short of a lifespan for these devices at this point. Early days when things were advancing like crazy, sure. But now? I have 8 year old computers that are still just fine, and with the M-series chips I'd expect at least 10 years of usable life at minimum (battery not withstanding)
  - qingcharles 1y ago
    That's weird. I have an 8th Gen iPad, the slowest device that can run iPadOS 26, and everything is fine on that old thing. (except the OS takes up the majority of the storage)
    - thewebguyd 1y ago
      Interesting. Might try a factory reset then and see. There's noticable lag for me, it's especially slow when switching apps or bringing up the keyboard, as well as on first unlock. Interacting within a single app is still fine, it's interacting with the OS that's really sluggish.
tsunamifury 1y ago
Transparency disabling ads anothe draw layer that is opaque on top making it even worse than when it’s on
- array_key_first 1y ago
  If they developed it in the most naive and stupid way imaginable, sure. If we're assuming Apple isn't filled with 3rd year comp sci students, then no.
  - tsunamifury 1y ago
    HAHA this is where HN has become delusional. It quite literally is the implementation, they've checked the render pipeline on reddit. Jesus the arrogance here is so shit.
    - array_key_first 1y ago
      It's not arrogance. Again, anyone above a 3rd comp sci student would know not to do it like that. I'm not saying I'm smart, I'm just saying I'm not stupid. There's a difference. If this is true, then apples engineers or managers made a huge mistake in their implementation.
      - tsunamifury 1y ago
        You must have no experience in FAANG. There are many counter intuitive solutions implemented for a variety of reasons. You’re inexperienced in the world not your knowledge.
        array_key_first 1y ago
        Yeah that's every company and yeah that's bad. I'm just pointing out it's bad. I don't know why youre taking that as if I just said something rude about your mother. Calm down, be normal.
prettyblocks 1y ago
I'm on an M2 with 24GB ram and it feels like it flies as fast as ever.
runjake 1y ago
It's probably due to the Electron bug[1]. A lot of common apps haven't patched up yet. I also have an M2 Pro with 32GB of memory. When I A/B test with Electron apps running vs without, the lag disappears when all the unpatched Electron apps are closed out. 1. https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ Here's a script I got from somewhere that shows unpatched Electron apps on your system: Edit: HN nerfed the script. Found a direct link: https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1e58 https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1...
- xrisk 1y ago
  hmm there are apps produced by your script that claim to be fixed according to https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ (Signal, Discord, Notion, etc). And I checked that those apps are updated. Which one’s correct?
  - runjake 1y ago
    HN broke the script. Here's a link: https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1e58 https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1...
  - mikamika83 1y ago
    the website is correct, you need to update the apps on your mac
- Eric_WVGG 1y ago
  unpatched include Asana, Bitwarden, Dropbox… some pretty high-profile apps
  - runjake 1y ago
    Yes, and 1Password up until today!
- fjarlq 1y ago
  Helpful script, except it prints the same line regardless of the version found.
Angostura 1y ago
I don't get this - I have an M1 iMac - haven't noticed much difference.
jen20 1y ago
> work provided I too have a work-provided laptop and a personal one bought the same month, with identical specs (the only difference is the US vs UK keyboard layout). The work-provided one is at least an order of magnitude slower to do anything thanks to enterprise crapware.
danhau 1y ago
With Tahoe my M2 Pro feels snappier than before.

by kokada 1y ago

fersarr 1y ago

same here

ExoticPearTree 1y ago

26.0.1 fixed the sluggishness. 26.0 was pretty unstable - felt like a game dropping frames.

kokada 1y ago
26.0.1 is better, but I can still get sluggishness in a few specific cases. I just got one example while passing the mouse quickly through my dock (I still use the magnify animation) and I can clearly see it dropping a few frames. This never happened in macOS 15.

speedgoose 1y ago

Do you have a few electron powered apps that didn’t get updated yet? Electron used to override a private function that makes the Mac OS sluggish on Tahoe, and apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple.

kokada 1y ago
I keep my applications pretty much up-to-date but I didn't check the release notes for each Electron application that I have to make sure they're updated. I still think this is a failure of macOS, since one misbehaving application shouldn't bring the whole environment to slow to a crawl. What I can say is that while the situation is much better than at Day 1, the whole Tahoe experience is not as fluid as Sequoia. Also, it doesn't really matter to me if this was a private function or not, if this was Windows or Gnome/KDE people would blame the developers of the desktop instead.
- speedgoose 1y ago
  Yes I think Apple is to blame there. Electron is so prominent that they should have detected the problem and found a solution well before the general release.
  - IMTDb 1y ago
    So now you can disregard the notion of "private function" if you pass 100k stars on GitHub ?
    - ruined 1y ago
      all APIs are public APIs
      - NetMageSCW 1y ago
        Only if you don’t care about your users or your apps reputation. Of course, if you are using Electron those ships have already sailed.
    - javawizard 1y ago
      There's definitely a line of thinking that would say "yes": https://www.hyrumslaw.com/ https://www.hyrumslaw.com/
      - 0x457 1y ago
        Sure, someone will depend on it, we all ignored "private" vs "public" at least once. Okay to do and okay to be mad when your thing breaks because you decided to depend on it? Nope.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        Okay to be mad the OS vendor didn't do anything to help when the users are the ones that face the fallout? Yes. Even if you disqualify the devs from being mad, everyone else gets to be mad.
placatedmayhem 1y ago
The check script I've been recommending is here: https://github.com/tkafka/detect-electron-apps-on-mac https://github.com/tkafka/detect-electron-apps-on-mac About half of the apps I use regularly have been fixed. Some might never be fixed, though...
- EasyMark 1y ago
  wasn't there a workaround for those apps that might not ever get updated? I thought I saw something on reddit. Some config change
  - joshstrange 1y ago
    > Run launchctl setenv CHROME_HEADLESS 1 on every system start. The CHROME_HEADLESS flag has a side effect of disabling Electron app window shadows, which makes them ugly, but also stops triggering the issue. From: https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/1nvoirl/i_made_a_script_to_detect_electronbased_apps_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/1nvoirl/i_made_a_scr...
EasyMark 1y ago
This is why I stay on previous release until at least 0.2 or 0.3 to let them work out the bugs so I dont' have to deal with them, there was nothing in 26 that felt pressing to me that I would need to update
- abustamam 1y ago
  Tbh I'm purposely not updating because I'm not in love with the new ~Aero~ glass UI.
michelb 1y ago
The OS and stock apps are much slower in Tahoe even. And the UI updates/interactions are also slower. I’m lucky I only upgraded my least used machine, and that’s a well stocked M2.
- astrange 1y ago
  It should not be slower. File a report in Feedback Assistant.
nikanj 1y ago
Or more likely nobody gives a damn about performance while doing testing.
pjmlp 1y ago
WWDC keynote on the state of the nation was quite clear on what Apple thinks about Electron and related stuff like React Native. Hence I am not surprised that they ignore their existence.
freehorse 1y ago
> apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple Or also the other way around, nobody who develops electron apps cares to test their app on macos in the beta releases (beta testing for developers was long out afaik). Except if it was like that JIT JVM bug that caused apps to crash and was not in the beta release.
thewebguyd 1y ago
> apparently no one uses Electron apps while doing testing at Apple. You have it the other way around. It should be, apparently no one making Electron bothered to test on the numerous developer and public betas to make sure their hacky override of undocumented APIs (which Apple explicitly says not to use) didn't break.

kobalsky 1y ago

my tinfoil-hat theory is that on each OS iteration Apple adds a new feature that leverages the latest chips hardware acceleration features and for older chips they do software-only implementations. they ship-of-thesseus the crap out of their OS but replacing with parts that need these new hardware features that run slow on older chips due to software-only implementations. I got the first generation iPad Pro, which is e-waste now, but I use it as a screen for my CCTV, it cannot even display the virtual keyboard without stuttering like crazy, it lags switching apps, there's a delay for everything, this thing was smooth as butter on release.

thewebguyd 1y ago
I have the 4th gen (2020) iPad Pro with the A12X Bionic, the same chip they put in the Apple Silicon transition dev kits. With iPadOS 26 it's become barely usable, despite still being performant as ever on iPadOS 18. I'm talking huge drop in performance, stutters and slow downs everywhere. I was considering just replacing the battery and keeping it for several more years but now I feel forced to upgrade which has me considering whether I still want/need an iPad since I'd also have to buy a new magic keyboard since they redesigned it, and they bumped the price ($1299 now vs. $999 when I got the 4th gen) so I'd be looking at $1700. Trying to hold out for an iPad Air with ProMotion. I may be in the minority here, but I think 5 years is too short of a lifespan for these devices at this point. Early days when things were advancing like crazy, sure. But now? I have 8 year old computers that are still just fine, and with the M-series chips I'd expect at least 10 years of usable life at minimum (battery not withstanding)
- qingcharles 1y ago
  That's weird. I have an 8th Gen iPad, the slowest device that can run iPadOS 26, and everything is fine on that old thing. (except the OS takes up the majority of the storage)
  - thewebguyd 1y ago
    Interesting. Might try a factory reset then and see. There's noticable lag for me, it's especially slow when switching apps or bringing up the keyboard, as well as on first unlock. Interacting within a single app is still fine, it's interacting with the OS that's really sluggish.

tsunamifury 1y ago

Transparency disabling ads anothe draw layer that is opaque on top making it even worse than when it’s on

array_key_first 1y ago
If they developed it in the most naive and stupid way imaginable, sure. If we're assuming Apple isn't filled with 3rd year comp sci students, then no.
- tsunamifury 1y ago
  HAHA this is where HN has become delusional. It quite literally is the implementation, they've checked the render pipeline on reddit. Jesus the arrogance here is so shit.
  - array_key_first 1y ago
    It's not arrogance. Again, anyone above a 3rd comp sci student would know not to do it like that. I'm not saying I'm smart, I'm just saying I'm not stupid. There's a difference. If this is true, then apples engineers or managers made a huge mistake in their implementation.
    - tsunamifury 1y ago
      You must have no experience in FAANG. There are many counter intuitive solutions implemented for a variety of reasons. You’re inexperienced in the world not your knowledge.
      - array_key_first 1y ago
        Yeah that's every company and yeah that's bad. I'm just pointing out it's bad. I don't know why youre taking that as if I just said something rude about your mother. Calm down, be normal.

prettyblocks 1y ago

I'm on an M2 with 24GB ram and it feels like it flies as fast as ever.

runjake 1y ago

It's probably due to the Electron bug[1]. A lot of common apps haven't patched up yet. I also have an M2 Pro with 32GB of memory. When I A/B test with Electron apps running vs without, the lag disappears when all the unpatched Electron apps are closed out. 1. https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ Here's a script I got from somewhere that shows unpatched Electron apps on your system: Edit: HN nerfed the script. Found a direct link: https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1e58 https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1...

xrisk 1y ago
hmm there are apps produced by your script that claim to be fixed according to https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ https://avarayr.github.io/shamelectron/ (Signal, Discord, Notion, etc). And I checked that those apps are updated. Which one’s correct?
- runjake 1y ago
  HN broke the script. Here's a link: https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1e58 https://gist.github.com/tkafka/e3eb63a5ec448e9be6701bfd1f1b1...
- mikamika83 1y ago
  the website is correct, you need to update the apps on your mac
Eric_WVGG 1y ago
unpatched include Asana, Bitwarden, Dropbox… some pretty high-profile apps
- runjake 1y ago
  Yes, and 1Password up until today!
fjarlq 1y ago
Helpful script, except it prints the same line regardless of the version found.

Angostura 1y ago

I don't get this - I have an M1 iMac - haven't noticed much difference.

jen20 1y ago

> work provided I too have a work-provided laptop and a personal one bought the same month, with identical specs (the only difference is the US vs UK keyboard layout). The work-provided one is at least an order of magnitude slower to do anything thanks to enterprise crapware.

danhau 1y ago

With Tahoe my M2 Pro feels snappier than before.