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My theory is that this darting is the mechanism of consciousness. We look inward and outward in a loop, which generates the perception of being conscious in a s
by delichon 1y ago
My theory is that this darting is the mechanism of consciousness. We look inward and outward in a loop, which generates the perception of being conscious in a similar way to how sequential frames of film create the illusion of motion. That "persistence of vision" is like the illusion of persistent, continuous consciousness created by the inward-outward regard sequence. Consciousness is a simple algorithm: look at the world, then look at the self to evaluate its reaction to the world. Then repeat.
- cantor_S_drug 1y agoIs this also the reason why darting eyes movements can be linked (and is predictive of or can detect) to mental health issues like schizophrenia, etc?
- mallowdram 1y agoIt's a mechanism of intelligence, not consciousness. Intel is built up from path-integration, short-cuts, vicarious trial and error that begins in very tiny local areas and expands to landmark and non-landmark navigation. This switching between vision and hippocampus has always been theorized about as the fundamental sharp wave ripple threshold of how intelligence is built as most mammals can do this, so it's not the "algorithm of consciousness".
- bmikaili 1y agoAnd funny enough this gets really close to the non-dualistic philosophies of zen buddhism.
- bwoah 1y agoYou could probably go further upstream and make a loose comparison to the concept of dependent arising (Pratītyasamutpāda): https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mind-indian-buddhism/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mind-indian-buddhism/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da
- dataviz1000 1y agoor T.S. Eliot's `Little Gidding`
- Jeff_Brown 1y agoBut why does that feel like anything? I could write a program that concurrently processes its visual input and its internal model. I don't think it would be conscious, unless everything in the universe is conscious (a possibility I can't, admittedly, discount).
- delichon 1y ago> But why does that feel like anything? Consciousness is an attention mechanism. That inward regard, evaluating how the self reacts to the world, is attention being payed to the body's feelings. The outward regard then maps those feelings on to local space. Consciousness is watching your feelings as a kind of HUD on the world. It correlates feels to things.
- EMIRELADERO 1y agoSure, but that still leaves the mystery of how qualia is generated in a mechanistic manner.
- lanfeust6 1y agoYes. Still perplexing to be thrown into the world. How is it that my individual experience is in this body but not another one? Etc
- savoyard 1y agoJust wait till you hear Geoffrey Hinton’s “little pink elephants” routine; it will all make sense then (it won’t). The mystery is almost rivaled by that other mystery of why some of us fail to be mystified.
- Traubenfuchs 1y ago> But why does that feel like anything? Orchestrated objective reduction or just an emerging proeprty of: Our 86 billion neurons, every single one deafeningly complex molecular machine with hundred million of hundreds of different receptor types, monoaminoxidae, (reuptake)transporters, connections to other neurons.
- ashanoko 1y ago[dead]
- yboris 1y agoInteresting idea called transparent self model by Thomas Metzinger, author of The Ego Tunnel where he explains it further. The gist from my memory of 15+ years ago is that the brain needs to model the world and then itself within the world, creating a model that is transparent to itself, situated in the world.
- lofaszvanitt 1y agoThis whole consciousness debate is just trumped up bs.
- nomel 1y agoFrom what...my friend say, this becomes evident with LSD. They said it clearly amplified the internal part of some visual perception loop, in fairly straightforward ways. For example, intentionally trying to see something as it wasn't (like a shadow as a snake) would make it be seen that way (the shadow would take on a clear snake appearance, and even move a bit). Some simple examples are all the face optical illusions (Thatcher, reverse mask, etc), that show our perception of a face is in no way direct.
- bongodongobob 1y agoI also have noticed a "ticking" effect at times. Maybe around 5-10Hz or so. Felt like some kind of global clock tick that was updating perception. Everything in between was interpolated. Course it could just be the drugs /shrug
- krackers 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade
- bongodongobob 1y agoSure. But it's not really the motion I experienced, it was the polling.
- dwd 1y agoAnil Seth would have it the other way around that you predictively generate a perception of the world and then use your senses to refine that. Consciousness could still be the self reaction to this sub-conscious predictive/generative function.
- nakamoto_damacy 1y ago<<look at the world, then look at the self to evaluate its reaction to the world. Then repeat>> Who's doing the looking?