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> but tons of electrical usage can be made intermittent I'm not familiar with large scale electrical. Do you have examples?

by nomel 1y ago

ezfe 1y ago
A good example: training AI models can be scheduled to occur when electricity is cheaper (aka solar power is active). That is just one example, but many things can happen throughout the day when power is cheaper.
legitster 1y ago
Aluminum refining from bauxite is a pretty classic example. It's very power intensive and will literally be done wherever and whenever they get the cheapest electricity. Bitcoin mining is a more unfortunate one but also pretty typical.
don_neufeld 1y ago
Example: EV charging is largely schedule based (mine charges overnight only - because rate plan), and can be made demand based pretty easily.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
phil21 1y ago
The issue is capital expense. Buying a bunch of expensive equipment and operating it 10 hours a day vs. 24 hours a day is usually not economical. The uses where this make sense are quite rare. For example training AI models is often cited - but when you're buying $1B of GPUs to stuff in a datacenter that have a 3 year useful lifespan - you are effectively cutting your amortization schedule in half. It would require some really expensive energy to make that pencil out. Energy storage of various types are probably the currently best bet, but those also have the same problem. Vehicle charging is a clear win, but also a low hanging fruit that is already well in play.
- rz2k 1y ago
  In such a case, isn't the "3 year useful lifespan" almost entirely related to energy cost? Why not put machines on 24 hour schedules for their first couple years, then cheap intermittent power for the next five?
dghlsakjg 1y ago
Many large industrial sites will cut deals with power companies for very cheap rates in exchange for not running during peak hours. Classic example is aluminum refining, and, depending on process, steel refining. If you can do demand based pricing, you could even end up with new time arbitrage business models. A battery farm or hydro facility stores energy when rates are cheap and discharges when rates go up.

> but tons of electrical usage can be made intermittent I'm not familiar with large scale electrical. Do you have examples?

by nomel 1y ago

> but tons of electrical usage can be made intermittent I'm not familiar with large scale electrical. Do you have examples?

ezfe 1y ago

A good example: training AI models can be scheduled to occur when electricity is cheaper (aka solar power is active). That is just one example, but many things can happen throughout the day when power is cheaper.

legitster 1y ago

Aluminum refining from bauxite is a pretty classic example. It's very power intensive and will literally be done wherever and whenever they get the cheapest electricity. Bitcoin mining is a more unfortunate one but also pretty typical.

don_neufeld 1y ago

Example: EV charging is largely schedule based (mine charges overnight only - because rate plan), and can be made demand based pretty easily.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

phil21 1y ago

The issue is capital expense. Buying a bunch of expensive equipment and operating it 10 hours a day vs. 24 hours a day is usually not economical. The uses where this make sense are quite rare. For example training AI models is often cited - but when you're buying $1B of GPUs to stuff in a datacenter that have a 3 year useful lifespan - you are effectively cutting your amortization schedule in half. It would require some really expensive energy to make that pencil out. Energy storage of various types are probably the currently best bet, but those also have the same problem. Vehicle charging is a clear win, but also a low hanging fruit that is already well in play.

rz2k 1y ago
In such a case, isn't the "3 year useful lifespan" almost entirely related to energy cost? Why not put machines on 24 hour schedules for their first couple years, then cheap intermittent power for the next five?

dghlsakjg 1y ago

Many large industrial sites will cut deals with power companies for very cheap rates in exchange for not running during peak hours. Classic example is aluminum refining, and, depending on process, steel refining. If you can do demand based pricing, you could even end up with new time arbitrage business models. A battery farm or hydro facility stores energy when rates are cheap and discharges when rates go up.