5 ms·

D) They don't enable E2EE for groups at all E) (I believe) don't enable E2EE with more than one device

dijit 1y ago
D) True aside from group calls afaik E) Neither does Whatsapp/Signal; they rely on a backdoor interface to your phone to send messages.
- tptacek 1y ago
  Signal very definitely does multiparty end-to-end secure messaging.
  - dijit 1y ago
    Weird, every time I mention Signal on HN tptacek responds. But I'm having trouble discerning what you mean. Either you're saying group chats are encrypted E2EE - which, I never claimed. Or, you're mentioning that you can have multiple phones/devices on the same account, which doesn't work the last time I checked.
    - mahemm 1y ago
      You replied to a claim that Telegram doesn't do E2EE for groups saying 'Neither does Whatsapp/Signal'. That's wrong as `tptacek noted. If you meant something else, that wasn't clear.
      - dijit 1y ago
        > E) (I believe) don't enable E2EE with more than one device my response was: > E) Neither does Signal/Whatsapp. The thread of the "E" topic is relevant here, i'm not claiming that Signal/Whatsapp support (or do not support) encryption for group chats. Sorry that it wasn't clear, I thought referring to them directly by letter would make it easier to differentiate.
    - rockskon 1y ago
      It does work. How do you think Signal desktop works?
      - dijit 1y ago
        I thought it worked the same as Whatsapp, whereby there's a sort of backdoor connection to the app running on your phone to send messages. However, after doing a smidge more research it seems like somehow Signal is sharing it's key with the desktop app and only syncing history of messages directly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 I'm not 100% sure how it works as the server is fake-open-source and not actual open-source.
        porridgeraisin 1y ago
        Whatsapp doesn't need a connection to your phone anymore either. It used to be the case until a few years ago though.
- fsflover 1y ago
  E) Yet it works fine on Matrix.
  - skeledrew 1y ago
    I've tried to use Matrix a few times and eventually end up leaving. The idea is good, but it's just missing so many nice features that it kinda isn't worth the pain. Features that Telegram just keeps dropping like candy.
    - the_gipsy 1y ago
      Too much candy is unhealthy.
      - skeledrew 1y ago
        Yeah that's why I don't have too much of it. But it's nice to know it's there so I can choose to indulge.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      Your complains are quite vague. It seems to be working fine for me.
      - skeledrew 1y ago
        Just got inspired to try it again after not touching it for at least a year. I login with Element and am hit with a notification to verify my session with another device to access my encrypted history. I have no other sessions. Does this mean I've irrevocably lost access to said data? This is unacceptable if I'm to use this service regularly; I'd rather have encryption off by default so I opt into the potential loss of data, instead of having to remember to opt out. The only really nice thing so far compared to Telegram is my account still exists with the chats I'd joined, while Telegram allows a year maximum inactivity before it totally deletes an account.
- crtasm 1y ago
  Signal desktop can send & receive messages while your phone is off, so that doesn't seem correct.
  - dijit 1y ago
    Oh, hey, TIL: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 Wonder how that works then? Weird.
fsflover 1y ago
F) They don't allow E2EE on GNU/Linux, including phones and desktop.
codedokode 1y ago
F) They added a third-party verification so that Russian authorities can add an "A+" mark to channels who are complying with the new law and are registered (social network channels/blogs with more than 10K subscribers must be registered with the government now and have the owner identified).

D) True aside from group calls afaik E) Neither does Whatsapp/Signal; they rely on a backdoor interface to your phone to send messages.

tptacek 1y ago
Signal very definitely does multiparty end-to-end secure messaging.
- dijit 1y ago
  Weird, every time I mention Signal on HN tptacek responds. But I'm having trouble discerning what you mean. Either you're saying group chats are encrypted E2EE - which, I never claimed. Or, you're mentioning that you can have multiple phones/devices on the same account, which doesn't work the last time I checked.
  - mahemm 1y ago
    You replied to a claim that Telegram doesn't do E2EE for groups saying 'Neither does Whatsapp/Signal'. That's wrong as `tptacek noted. If you meant something else, that wasn't clear.
    - dijit 1y ago
      > E) (I believe) don't enable E2EE with more than one device my response was: > E) Neither does Signal/Whatsapp. The thread of the "E" topic is relevant here, i'm not claiming that Signal/Whatsapp support (or do not support) encryption for group chats. Sorry that it wasn't clear, I thought referring to them directly by letter would make it easier to differentiate.
  - rockskon 1y ago
    It does work. How do you think Signal desktop works?
    - dijit 1y ago
      I thought it worked the same as Whatsapp, whereby there's a sort of backdoor connection to the app running on your phone to send messages. However, after doing a smidge more research it seems like somehow Signal is sharing it's key with the desktop app and only syncing history of messages directly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 I'm not 100% sure how it works as the server is fake-open-source and not actual open-source.
      - porridgeraisin 1y ago
        Whatsapp doesn't need a connection to your phone anymore either. It used to be the case until a few years ago though.
fsflover 1y ago
E) Yet it works fine on Matrix.
- skeledrew 1y ago
  I've tried to use Matrix a few times and eventually end up leaving. The idea is good, but it's just missing so many nice features that it kinda isn't worth the pain. Features that Telegram just keeps dropping like candy.
  - the_gipsy 1y ago
    Too much candy is unhealthy.
    - skeledrew 1y ago
      Yeah that's why I don't have too much of it. But it's nice to know it's there so I can choose to indulge.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    Your complains are quite vague. It seems to be working fine for me.
    - skeledrew 1y ago
      Just got inspired to try it again after not touching it for at least a year. I login with Element and am hit with a notification to verify my session with another device to access my encrypted history. I have no other sessions. Does this mean I've irrevocably lost access to said data? This is unacceptable if I'm to use this service regularly; I'd rather have encryption off by default so I opt into the potential loss of data, instead of having to remember to opt out. The only really nice thing so far compared to Telegram is my account still exists with the chats I'd joined, while Telegram allows a year maximum inactivity before it totally deletes an account.
crtasm 1y ago
Signal desktop can send & receive messages while your phone is off, so that doesn't seem correct.
- dijit 1y ago
  Oh, hey, TIL: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15596980 Wonder how that works then? Weird.

fsflover 1y ago

F) They don't allow E2EE on GNU/Linux, including phones and desktop.

codedokode 1y ago

F) They added a third-party verification so that Russian authorities can add an "A+" mark to channels who are complying with the new law and are registered (social network channels/blogs with more than 10K subscribers must be registered with the government now and have the owner identified).