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Depending on your regulatory environment, it can be cost-effective to not have to maintain your own data center with 24/7 security response, environmental monit

Depending on your regulatory environment, it can be cost-effective to not have to maintain your own data center with 24/7 security response, environmental monitoring, fire suppression systems, etc. (of course, the majority of businesses are probably not interested in things like SOC 2)

wongarsu 1y ago
This argument comes up a lot, but it feels a bit silly to me. If you want a beefy server you start out with renting one. $150/month will give you a server with 24 core Xeon and 256GB of RAM, in a data center with everything you mentined plus a 24/7 hands-on technician you can book. Preferably rent two servers, because reliablity. Once you outgrow renting servers you start renting rack space in a certified data center with all the same amenities. Once you outgrow that you start renting entire racks, then rows of racks or small rooms inside the DC. Then you start renting portions of the DC. Once you have outgrown that you have to seriously worry about maintaining your own data center. But at that point you have so much scale that this will be the least of your worries
- hrimfaxi 1y ago
  > This argument comes up a lot, but it feels a bit silly to me. If you want a beefy server you start out with renting one. $150/month will give you a server with 24 core Xeon and 256GB of RAM, in a data center with everything you mentined plus a 24/7 hands-on technician you can book. What's the bandwidth and where can I rent one of these??
  - wongarsu 1y ago
    Hetzner [1]. Bandwidth is 1 GBit/s. You can also get 10 GBit/s, that's hidden away a bit instead of being mentioned on the order page [2] 1: https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex 2: https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/network/10g-uplink/ https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/network/10g-...
    - coder543 1y ago
      I have wished for years that Hetzner would offer their bare metal servers in the U.S., and not just Hetzner Cloud.
      - Aeolun 1y ago
        Here is US Hetzner: https://ioflood.com/ https://ioflood.com/ Their prices have come down a lot. I used them when the servers still cost $200 a piece, but their support at the time was fantastic.
        christophilus 1y ago
        Wow. No joke. I haven’t heard of them, but I like their blurb, and those are Hetzner like prices. Now, I just need to find a use for that much beef.
    - hrimfaxi 1y ago
      How is that any different from cloud? This whole thread was a response to > Today at AWS, it is easily possible for people to spend a multiple of the cost of that hardware setup every month for far less compute power and storage. suggesting to use a few beefy servers but if we are renting them from cloud we're back where we started.
      - wongarsu 1y ago
        The difference from the big clouds is that an equivalent instance at AWS costs 10x as much. If you go with few beefy servers AWS offers very little value for the money they charge, they only make sense for "cloud native" architectures. But if you rent raw servers from traditional hosters you can get prices much closer to the amortized costs of running them yourself, with the added convenience of having them in a certified data center with 24/7 security, backup power, etc. If you want more control than that, colo is also pretty cheap [1]. But I'd consider that a step above what 95% of people need https://www.hetzner.com/colocation https://www.hetzner.com/colocation
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - iknowstuff 1y ago
    https://us.ovhcloud.com/bare-metal/prices/?display=list https://us.ovhcloud.com/bare-metal/prices/?display=list also pretty sure 24 cores is like 48 cloud “cores” which are usually just hyper threads right?
    - ahartmetz 1y ago
      IME, a cloud "core" is even worse than a hyperthread. I'm not sure if they oversubscribe, or underclock, or if it's virtualization overhead... but anyway, not great.
      - jandrese 1y ago
        They oversubscribe.
- throwaway894345 1y ago
  I'm a lot less concerned about CPU and ram and a lot more concerned about replicated object storage (across data centers). High end GPUs are also pretty important.
BirAdam 1y ago
This is handled by colo.
orev 1y ago
The only companies directly dealing with that type of stuff are the ones already at such a scale where they need to actually build their own data centers. Everyone else is just renting space somewhere that already takes care of those things and you just need to review their ISO/SOC reports. This kind of argument comes from the cloud provider marketing playbook, not reality.

wongarsu 1y ago

This argument comes up a lot, but it feels a bit silly to me. If you want a beefy server you start out with renting one. $150/month will give you a server with 24 core Xeon and 256GB of RAM, in a data center with everything you mentined plus a 24/7 hands-on technician you can book. Preferably rent two servers, because reliablity. Once you outgrow renting servers you start renting rack space in a certified data center with all the same amenities. Once you outgrow that you start renting entire racks, then rows of racks or small rooms inside the DC. Then you start renting portions of the DC. Once you have outgrown that you have to seriously worry about maintaining your own data center. But at that point you have so much scale that this will be the least of your worries

hrimfaxi 1y ago
> This argument comes up a lot, but it feels a bit silly to me. If you want a beefy server you start out with renting one. $150/month will give you a server with 24 core Xeon and 256GB of RAM, in a data center with everything you mentined plus a 24/7 hands-on technician you can book. What's the bandwidth and where can I rent one of these??
- wongarsu 1y ago
  Hetzner [1]. Bandwidth is 1 GBit/s. You can also get 10 GBit/s, that's hidden away a bit instead of being mentioned on the order page [2] 1: https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex 2: https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/network/10g-uplink/ https://docs.hetzner.com/robot/dedicated-server/network/10g-...
  - coder543 1y ago
    I have wished for years that Hetzner would offer their bare metal servers in the U.S., and not just Hetzner Cloud.
    - Aeolun 1y ago
      Here is US Hetzner: https://ioflood.com/ https://ioflood.com/ Their prices have come down a lot. I used them when the servers still cost $200 a piece, but their support at the time was fantastic.
      - christophilus 1y ago
        Wow. No joke. I haven’t heard of them, but I like their blurb, and those are Hetzner like prices. Now, I just need to find a use for that much beef.
  - hrimfaxi 1y ago
    How is that any different from cloud? This whole thread was a response to > Today at AWS, it is easily possible for people to spend a multiple of the cost of that hardware setup every month for far less compute power and storage. suggesting to use a few beefy servers but if we are renting them from cloud we're back where we started.
    - wongarsu 1y ago
      The difference from the big clouds is that an equivalent instance at AWS costs 10x as much. If you go with few beefy servers AWS offers very little value for the money they charge, they only make sense for "cloud native" architectures. But if you rent raw servers from traditional hosters you can get prices much closer to the amortized costs of running them yourself, with the added convenience of having them in a certified data center with 24/7 security, backup power, etc. If you want more control than that, colo is also pretty cheap [1]. But I'd consider that a step above what 95% of people need https://www.hetzner.com/colocation https://www.hetzner.com/colocation
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- iknowstuff 1y ago
  https://us.ovhcloud.com/bare-metal/prices/?display=list https://us.ovhcloud.com/bare-metal/prices/?display=list also pretty sure 24 cores is like 48 cloud “cores” which are usually just hyper threads right?
  - ahartmetz 1y ago
    IME, a cloud "core" is even worse than a hyperthread. I'm not sure if they oversubscribe, or underclock, or if it's virtualization overhead... but anyway, not great.
    - jandrese 1y ago
      They oversubscribe.
throwaway894345 1y ago
I'm a lot less concerned about CPU and ram and a lot more concerned about replicated object storage (across data centers). High end GPUs are also pretty important.

BirAdam 1y ago

This is handled by colo.

orev 1y ago

The only companies directly dealing with that type of stuff are the ones already at such a scale where they need to actually build their own data centers. Everyone else is just renting space somewhere that already takes care of those things and you just need to review their ISO/SOC reports. This kind of argument comes from the cloud provider marketing playbook, not reality.